Good grief. Now they’re saying that not all xx are female and not all xy are male. And that xy ‘generally' means male.

They have a point.

if you have a child with what looks like normal female external anatomy, that child will be “female”

if that child gets to 15, 16, and doesn’t appear to be going through puberty/starting periods, so you take her to the doctor.

it turns out she has a dsd where testosterone didn’t do it’s job in utero. So despite being externally female, they have no uterus, a blind vagina, and internal testes. Genotyping reveals XY chromosomes.

so now what. Do we go full mumsnet, point and shout “MAN”, and give no thought to how the child feels?

do we start genotyping everyone at birth so we can identify those who’s phenotype doesn’t meet their genotype to avoid this issue and identify “real” sex?

I suspect with sport we will have to have a blanket ban on XY in female sport, dsd or not. But dsd’s do exist in real life so yes, in those cases do we go by physical appearance or XY?

It is also true that during pregnancy and birth you can absorb some of the DNA of your children, so if you are the mother of a sone if is perfectly possible to have patches of cells in your body that are XY

No, inclusive of those disorders.

The development towards one of two reproductive roles is a pathway that relies on lots of things going correctly in order to be fertile, but once you're on a pathway you can't switch between the two.

Being fertile isn't a condition of my definition.

@Mostunexpected - the definition I've seen on Mumsnet is based on gametes.

If the body, if everything were in working order, is the type to produce large immobile gametes (ova) then = female sex.

The type of body (if everything in working order) to produce small mobile gametes (sperm) = male sex.

But some people have disorders (DSDs), of which there are many types, and they're not straightforward.

Apart from the disorders that have been mentioned already here.
It is possible to not physically resemble what your genetics suggest you should be. This is a fact, I’m not sure how there can can be any argument over it

I know what you mean
Personally, when I see comments on social media that I think are goady or entirely stupid, I think it best to grey rock. There are certain disingenuous individuals who pop up a lot and I simply won't bother reading what they have to say anymore. I have so much admiration for the patient engagers who do go on to challenge some of the stupid ideological rhetoric we're seeing across the platforms - and I know they are doing it for the observers rather than try to change the mind of the terminally daft. I just don't have the patience to engage as I consider some of the opinions generated are not just ill considered but reveal someone to be a bit unwell.

The devopmment toward one of two reproductive roles has always defined sex (woman/ man, female/ male) and is determined by genetics.

Some people need to decide if the argument they’ve believed and stated for so long, that vagina=female and penis=male is correct. Is genitalia what makes you male or female? Or is it genetics?

It's gametes for me.

Ah, the clowns are up early today.

Some people need to decide if the argument they’ve believed and stated for so long, that vagina=female and penis=male is correct. Is genitalia what makes you male or female? Or is it genetics?

Yes, that's true. Reporting your post so that the title can be edited, you might want to do that yourself.

XX= female, XY= male is a useful shorthand because it is true almost 100% of the time. The SRY sex-determining gene is almost always located on the Y chromosome.

When talking about DSDs, it is true that there are a vanishingly small number of conditions where the SRY gene either isn't in its usual place or is otherwise inactive. This means it is possible to have XX males because the SRY transposes onto the incorrect chromosome, or if it misfires then male development won't occur.

But there is definitely misinformation in relying on these vanishingly small DSD cases to justify that anyone with a DSD can just call themselves a woman.

Someone said this to me on FB and when I questioned it she shouted do you have a degree in biology??? It’s like talking to monkeys.

It's true but rare. Some people with disorders of sexual development have non-standard chromosome patterns.

See the table posted on page 2 of this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5134040-can-a-xx-woman-go-through-male-puberty?page=2

This has been pushed for years.

And yes, it's going to do damage.

The IOC claims a passport proves eligibility. It's self ID.