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A question of context: Where does Anneliese Dodds stand on gender?

36 replies

IwantToRetire · 09/07/2024 01:23

Labour’s women and equalities minister supported transgender people being able to declare their own gender.

Anneliese Dodds, who has replaced Kemi Badenoch, backed proposals that would have allowed anybody to acquire a gender recognition certificate if they wanted one.

Gender self-identification was official Labour policy under both Jeremy Corbyn and Sir Keir Starmer.

The now-Prime Minister only scrapped the policy after the backlash to Nicola Sturgeon’s failed attempt to introduce it in Scotland in early 2023 via the Gender Recognition Act.

Upon being appointed shadow minister for women and equalities in September 2021, Ms Dodds made it clear that she supported self-ID, which would revoke the existing requirement for a formal medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria.

In a speech at the Labour Conference, she said that a Labour government would acknowledge “that trans rights are human rights” and “reform the Gender Recognition Act to enable a process for self-identification while continuing to support the 2010 Equalities Act”.

Bridget Phillipson, the Education Secretary who is technically Ms Dodds’ superior as women and equalities minister, has also been an outspoken advocate of transgender policy reform.

In May, she accused Mrs Badenoch of loving “nothing more than a culture war” in response to the then women and equalities minister’s claim that some girls were getting urinary tract infections from not wanting to use gender-neutral lavatories in schools.

She also declined to commit to keeping the Conservatives’ new sex education guidance, which says that it should not be taught earlier than the age of nine and urges schools not to teach contested gender ideology.

“I do think it’s important that children have a wide understanding about their place in the world and understand that families come in different shapes and sizes, and understand issues around relationships,” Ms Phillipson told The Telegraph.

Last month, the MP for Houghton and Sunderland South suggested that Labour will also ditch guidelines banning children from being taught that there are more than two genders.

Asked three times if she would keep the ban or ditch it, Ms Phillipson refused to answer directly but said: “There are trans people within society and their existence should be recognised.”

She was also criticised for refusing eight times to answer whether a biological male should be able to use a women’s lavatory during a radio interview with LBC.

While Ms Phillipson will formally hold the women and equalities portfolio because it has to be held by someone of Cabinet rank, Ms Dodds will be the de facto minister and attend Cabinet.

Some extracts from a much longer article https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/08/where-does-anneliese-dodds-stand-on-gender/

Can also be read at https://archive.ph/Z0stm

Worth remembering that following the GE, even if every over party voted against a Labour policy, Labour would still have a majority of 112 to get it through unchallenged.

A question of context: Where does Anneliese Dodds stand on gender?

Advocate for trans rights but defender of female-only spaces, how may the women and equalities minister’s views define her future policies?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/08/where-does-anneliese-dodds-stand-on-gender

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IwantToRetire · 10/07/2024 18:24

As I said I was posting on second hand information.

Have seen the other thread, but the point is in terms of C5 (dont forget JV got his slot because the previous presenter wouldn't apologise for a guest saying women are biological females) and Storm Huntly, irrespective of the messenger, this is going against what has been their normally position. Even if not full on TWAW, but definitely be kind.

Its a shame that they didn't give more time to the nurse who rang in. You would think they would have leapt at the chance to have someone who has been directly impacted have a voice.

And who knows, one day not just C5, but other talk shows will get someone from Sex Matters or LGB Alliance to be a commentator.

Its a bit like having to rely on the right wing press to even give a slight clue that women do not accept the media impression that we have all been Stonewalled.

It might be worth posting on the C5 facebook page to let the presenters and producers know there are other better informed people who could comment / contribute.
https://www.facebook.com/JeremyVineOn5/posts/pfbid01SHhM98AT36pzhkLXJ1eXHp5VtfeajWvwyMrF1LDeeH3MG9UG5k9nHyNMV4nnApkl

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Mumoftwo1316 · 10/07/2024 18:12

I'm not sure how it's possible to be a gender critical transwoman. What would they be transing to/from? I thought gender critical meant believing that your sex doesn't limit your behaviour/presentation. What makes him different to any other man, from a gender critical POV?

OldCrone · 10/07/2024 18:03

They included as a commentator, Katy Jon Went, who seems to be a gender critical TW

There's a thread about this programme.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5116457-brilliant-transwoman-on-channel5-now

KJW isn't gender critical, he's an AGP.

https://x.com/transwidows/status/1664272015124221954?s=46&t=PSGltfjrMyZmBtYq2-AVIQ

IwantToRetire · 10/07/2024 17:58

This may be the clip on twitter converted to a thread reader so should be accessible https://unrollnow.com/status/1811006030064574729

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IwantToRetire · 10/07/2024 17:39

Apparently Storm Huntly on 5 (I think that's what its called) had a segement called:

Is Starmer's new Women's Minister right for the job?
He's appointed Anneliese Dodds, who's previously been criticised for her definition of what a woman is.
What do you think?

They included as a commentator, Katy Jon Went, who seems to be a gender critical TW and compared to usually full on TWAW tv commentators, was much more about equal respect, same sex toilets and alternative spaces to those who are trans. (Sorry this is second hand.)

Can only find this clip via twitter and dont know how to make it shareable - sorry: https://x.com/JeremyVineOn5/status/1811006030064574729

Also one of the nurses who is taking legal action about a TW in the nurses changing room rang in.

So even if Labour want us to believe the "woke war is over" it maybe that even if only to be a shit stirrer, the media isn't going to stop covering it.

(Maybe if anyone is interested its available on catch up tv?)

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CHEESEY13 · 10/07/2024 09:00

You mean Ms Dodds will fix it for me to (at long last!) self identify as The Martian I've always known I really am?
Hurrah! Beam me up Doddsy.......

Justme56 · 10/07/2024 08:54

‘I feel a woman so I am one’, I hope she’s not going round feeling women - that would be a concern!!!

I guess she meant I feel like a woman - it was just my initial reading. Still utter nonsense.

Calling · 10/07/2024 08:34

Anneliese Dodds' representative was at the general election hustings and was asked: 'in the context of biology and chromosomes, what is a woman?" She replied: "a woman is defined by how you feel. I feel a woman, so I am one. Transwomen are women" followed by spiel about how oppressed trans are.

Ramblingnamechanger · 10/07/2024 08:20

It will be interesting to see the arguments between Jess Phillips and these two over whether women can be safe while men are included in eg refuge provision. Thank you to Lesbian Labour for standing up against the forced teaming.

gummigwer · 10/07/2024 07:57

Hedgeoffressian · 09/07/2024 20:33

What parent in their right mind would vote for this? You can only imagine what they will be teaching them at school now. Canada here we come 🙄

Fuck. We're going to have to all home school.

Littlewhingingfucker · 10/07/2024 06:53

So this is what "ending the culture war on day one" looks like.
I mean, it took five days, and appears as if Kier thinks he can confuse us into silence "I've given you not one, not two but three THREE proper womany women to tell you how I think you're just as important as men. Now will you let chaps in dresses get changed next to you in Primark"
Makes me wonder why the Tories didn't do the same months ago.

IwantToRetire · 10/07/2024 01:05

Anneliese Dodds told ‘sex needs to be biologically defined’ because ‘sexual orientation is based on biological sex’

“We have met her to explain that sex needs to be biologically defined, because sexual orientation is based on biological sex.

“As the Cass Review showed, young lesbians when they are exploring their sexual orientation get treated as if they are suffering from gender dysphoria, and get sent to gender clinics. It’s like a eugenics programme against lesbians.

“We hope that now that they are in government, they will accept that their engagement procedures have been wrong. If we write an email, there should be an answer. No debate is over.

“Let’s hope that now she is in post she will listen to all stakeholders on this issue, not just those signed up to Stonewall, particularly lesbians.

“The distinction between gender identity and sexual orientation needs to be understood.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/09/anneliese-dodds-lesbian-labour-womens-minister/

can also be read at https://archive.ph/3HmVI

New women’s minister doesn’t ‘get it’, says Labour lesbian group

Anneliese Dodds told ‘sex needs to be biologically defined’ because ‘sexual orientation is based on biological sex’

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/09/anneliese-dodds-lesbian-labour-womens-minister

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IwantToRetire · 10/07/2024 00:13

Confusion engulfs Labour’s downgraded Women and Equalities role

Labour insiders told i they didn’t understand what was happening with the appointment and were baffled by the secrecy and the delay. Others wondered if stalling was deliberate to avoid any controversy about the appointment overshadowing the rest of the Cabinet announcements, and what this might suggest about how the new Government is going to approach equality issues.

Early on Monday morning, there was still no announcement, the Government’s Equality Hub told i it did not know who had been appointed to the role, only for the 10 Downing Street X (Twitter) account to then announce Ms Dodds as the new Minister for Women and Equalities.

But shortly after, an equality hub spokesperson told i that Bridget Phillipson had been appointed as Minister for Women and Equalities (as well as Education Secretary), while Ms Dodds had become Minister of State for Women and Equalities within the education department – which initially appeared to hold a narrower brief than Ms Phillipson under whom she would be working.

The decision by Starmer to name both Ms Dodds and Ms Phillipson also highlights a change in his approach to the role itself. In opposition, Labour (since 2017) named the role Shadow Secretary of State, underscoring its importance within the Shadow Cabinet.

But now in office, the role has been split between two ministers and is not given a Secretary of State title, in what some would regard as a lowering of its standing within government.

https://inews.co.uk/news/confusion-engulfs-labours-downgraded-women-and-equalities-role-3158669

Can be read at https://archive.ph/ngBjC

Fawcett said to have " applauded the appointments describing Ms Phillipson and Ms Dodds as “brilliant women”, writing on X: “We’re pleased to see not one but two people tasked with the critical work in the women and equalities portfolio. We would love to have seen a dedicated Secretary of State post and we’ll keep pushing for that.”

How Labour’s Women and Equalities role was downgraded

Anneliese Dodds and Bridget Phillipson have both been appointed to the job overseeing transgender and women’s rights

https://inews.co.uk/news/confusion-engulfs-labours-downgraded-women-and-equalities-role-3158669

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IwantToRetire · 09/07/2024 20:46

the prime minister’s spokesperson emphasised that Dodds would be the lead minister “for all intents and purposes”, with Phillipson having been named a minister for “constitutional purposes” because she is a secretary of state

A version of this has been quoted in a number of articles and I cant quite understand what it means.

That basically Dodds is the Minister for Women and Equalities who will do the work, but Starmer doesn't think the post is important enough to be a cabinet minister. So they have added Pillipson as the Minister for Women and Equalities because she is a cabinet Minister and she will then quote work done by Dodds so that it can be said Women and Equalities have a voice in Cabinet?

I'm not trying to labour (unintended joke - not) this point, but really cant understand.

KB was in the Tory Cabinet as minister for Trade and whatever and also as Minister for W&E and did both jobs. And as we know probably did more for women in that period than anyone else, whilst also jetting round the world selling arms and other profitable UK products.

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tedgran · 09/07/2024 20:44

I live in a solid Libdem constituency, I've written to my MP about women's rights, got a mealy mouthed response, so I voted Tory as a protest. I was sure Labour would let women down, sad to be proved right.

quockerwodger · 09/07/2024 20:43

IwantToRetire · 09/07/2024 20:40

Is this from today (cant see a date on the image)?

If it is today I think it is a clear signal that for Labour their priority is the Rainbow soup.

As posted on other threads there are Labour MPs who consider both WPUK and LGB Alliance "hate groups".

This is what they mean by the culture war is over. As far as Labour is concerned there is only one side they are going to listen to and placate.

Yeah, not too long ago, couple hours.

A question of context: Where does Anneliese Dodds stand on gender?
IwantToRetire · 09/07/2024 20:40

quockerwodger · 09/07/2024 20:33

"Breaking new ground for LGBT+ rights"

What does that mean I wonder?

Is this from today (cant see a date on the image)?

If it is today I think it is a clear signal that for Labour their priority is the Rainbow soup.

As posted on other threads there are Labour MPs who consider both WPUK and LGB Alliance "hate groups".

This is what they mean by the culture war is over. As far as Labour is concerned there is only one side they are going to listen to and placate.

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Hedgeoffressian · 09/07/2024 20:33

muddyford · 09/07/2024 10:19

I'm appalled that so many people, who are either biological women or have mothers, sisters and daughters who are, voted for a party that talks this sort of utter crap.

What parent in their right mind would vote for this? You can only imagine what they will be teaching them at school now. Canada here we come 🙄

quockerwodger · 09/07/2024 20:33

"Breaking new ground for LGBT+ rights"

What does that mean I wonder?

A question of context: Where does Anneliese Dodds stand on gender?
IwantToRetire · 09/07/2024 20:30

HPFA · 09/07/2024 10:52

This is a good and fair article on Labour - although I dislike the headline - women want different things!

https://unherd.com/2024/07/labour-doesnt-know-what-women-want/

I think the basic flaw with this article is that it assume Labour listens to women.

It doesn't. It listens to the women who they accept.

Labour thinks that because the Tories are out of power there is now not anyone in the HoC who will have the status to make any MP think they have to bother the think about it.

Not forgetting the number of women in the Labour and Green Parties who think there isn't a issue, just a few old dinasours who are all right wing reactionaries. (As apparently does WPUK!)

To put it bluntly there is little or no chance of a GC voice in the HoC let alone in any committee that will be delegated to amend not just the GRA but the EA.

I cant think of any way women's sex based rights are going to get a platform other than throught the strange partnership of Daily Mail articles and JKR tweets.

Its not as though the women in various groups and campaigns are going to agree to work together.

Sorry to be so downbeat, but the reality of the Labour majority cannot be ignored.

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MarieDeGournay · 09/07/2024 12:43

Thanks Mumoftwo1316.

  • *I think the confusing Census question didn't help, but it still seems to be a very very small percentage of the population demanding a very very large amount of attention, airtime, legislation, space on the school curriculum etc etc. I was surprised when I saw just how numerically small this group of people is, given the amount of problems they cause in so many areas of society.

You and I are in total agreement about women's spacesSmile

Catsmere · 09/07/2024 11:05

She stands where all genderists do, doesn't she? With her foot on women's necks.

Mumoftwo1316 · 09/07/2024 10:57

MarieDeGournay · 09/07/2024 10:50

Asked three times if she would keep the ban or ditch it, Ms Phillipson refused to answer directly but said: “There are trans people within society and their existence should be recognised.”

Of course there are trans people within society - but if I am reading the UK Census figures correctly, there are about 262,000 of them. I know the figures are contested, and as far as specifically identifying as 'trans', the figures are even smaller:

Around 48,000 people (0.1%) gave their identity as ‘trans man’ and another 48,000 (0.1%) gave their identity as ‘trans woman’.
2021 census: What do we know about the LGBT+ population? (parliament.uk)

So that's 96,000 people who positively identified as trans in the last Census. I'm scratching my head at the amount of noise about such a small group of people, so much so that I'm questioning if I've got the figures right - entirely possible, I've never been great with numbers, and I'm expecting some MNers to come on and patiently explain that I've misread a decimal point or something..

Please tell me if I've got it all wrong - is all this social, political and pedagogical turmoil really about 96,000 people?

The census figures:

  • The census question on gender identity was a voluntary question asked of those aged 16 years and over. The question asked “Is the gender you identify with the same as your sex registered at birth?”.
  • Overall, 45.7 million (94.0% of the population aged 16 years and over) answered the question.
  • In total, 45.4 million (93.5%) answered “Yes” and 262,000 (0.5%) answered “No”.
  • The remaining 2.9 million (6.0%) did not answer the question.
Gender identity, England and Wales - Office for National Statistics (ons.gov.uk)

I'm afraid you're reading them incorrectly. The ONS had to apologise for asking a misleading question that EAL respondents were more likely to answer "no" to even if they weren't trans.

I myself definitely do not identify as trans but neither would I categorically answer "yes" to that question because I don't identify with any gender, any more than I "identify" with having two legs. I just have them.

Anyway, all this "noise" isn't about the small number of trans people. It's about opening the door wide to people with bad intentions. It's about not being able to challenge any man who walks into a single sex space, because he could claim to be trans. And there are many men out there with bad intentions.

HPFA · 09/07/2024 10:52

This is a good and fair article on Labour - although I dislike the headline - women want different things!

https://unherd.com/2024/07/labour-doesnt-know-what-women-want/

Labour still doesn't know what women want

https://unherd.com/2024/07/labour-doesnt-know-what-women-want