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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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UtopiaPlanitia · 26/06/2024 17:40

ArabellaScott · 26/06/2024 16:50

I am embarrassingly fascinated by combination Pictish/Gaelic/Scots placenames. Auchter is from the Gaelice, though:

https://getoutside.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/guides/the-gaelic-origins-of-place-names-in-britain/

Edited

Scuse the derail….

Arabella you might enjoy these

https://www.logainm.ie/en/ & http://PlacenamesNI.org

…..normal feministing service resumed.

Tennant can by all means disagree with Badenoch but his personal attack on her was out of order and I’m glad to see Sunak defending her swiftly and publicly. Perhaps Keir might learn from Sunak how it’s done.

IwantToRetire · 26/06/2024 17:35

Dawn Butler has tweeted that she agrees with David Tennant.

And yet Starmer is trying to tell us women are safe with Labour. Everyone goes on about Sunak not having control over his Tory candidates, but never question Labour's disarray. Or is it just because it is only a problem for women.

Look at this:

TW with penises can use female toilets - Bridget Phillipson
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5105511-tw-with-penises-can-use-female-toilets-bridget-phillipson-labour-has-lost-womens-trust-wes-streeting (also has link to article by Suzanne Moore that mentions mumsnet !)

Good to hear that Sunak has spoken up for KB's right to exist and have an opinion!

Did someone upthread say that Sunak is going to by questioned by MNHQ?

TW with penises can use female toilets - Bridget Phillipson / Labour has lost women’s trust - Wes Streeting | Mumsnet

^Ms Phillipson was challenged on Times Radio over her party’s proposals. She was asked: “I am someone who is biologically a male, but I have changed m...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5105511-tw-with-penises-can-use-female-toilets-bridget-phillipson-labour-has-lost-womens-trust-wes-streeting

Theeyeballsinthesky · 26/06/2024 17:34

Keir starmer has said he doesn’t agree with DT approach

Asked about Tennant’s comment, Starmer said:
I think in politics, as in life, it’s really important that we are able to robustly disagree with others.
Obviously, that happens a lot in the general election campaign, but we should do it with respect for everybody involved in that robust discussion.
I wouldn’t have engaged in the way that he did. I think it’s right that we have these robust discussions, but we must do it respectfully.

lcakethereforeIam · 26/06/2024 17:30

BusyMummy001 · 26/06/2024 17:16

Afraid I never really liked him - he had that smug know-it-all air of the weedy obnxious kid in school that everyone wanted to kick the shit out of, but couldn’t ‘cos his mum was Deputy Head.

Omg! That's exactly who he reminds me of.

ScrollingLeaves · 26/06/2024 17:22

Nanny0gg · 26/06/2024 14:32

I found this interesting too

https://www.tiktok.com/@womenfullstop/video/7252454084349938971?lang=en

Helen Joyce on why some TRAs will absolutely have to stay 'on message' so to speak

I couldn’t open that, but just to let you know that yesterday another poster included a full quote about what HJ said about this.

Equanimitas · 26/06/2024 17:21

dougalfromthemagicroundabout · 26/06/2024 17:09

IMO he wouldn't have used those words if it was a white man he disagreed with. I think he's racist and I'm basing that on his actions here.

Wishing someone out of existence is pretty awful - surely 'literal violence' and 'genocide' according to the side he supports in this. They're always saying women simply expressing a preference for single sex spaces are committing 'literal violence' and 'genocide' and 'don't want trans people to exist' but when Tennant ACTUALLY wishes - and says out loud in a public setting - that a black woman doesn't exist, there's crickets? Double standards galore - it's just unhinged.

Pretty sure he wouldn't hesitate to use the same words and worse about, say , Johnson, Rees-Mogg, Farage or many other white men. In fact, he almost certainly already has.

BusyMummy001 · 26/06/2024 17:16

Afraid I never really liked him - he had that smug know-it-all air of the weedy obnxious kid in school that everyone wanted to kick the shit out of, but couldn’t ‘cos his mum was Deputy Head.

dougalfromthemagicroundabout · 26/06/2024 17:09

IMO he wouldn't have used those words if it was a white man he disagreed with. I think he's racist and I'm basing that on his actions here.

Wishing someone out of existence is pretty awful - surely 'literal violence' and 'genocide' according to the side he supports in this. They're always saying women simply expressing a preference for single sex spaces are committing 'literal violence' and 'genocide' and 'don't want trans people to exist' but when Tennant ACTUALLY wishes - and says out loud in a public setting - that a black woman doesn't exist, there's crickets? Double standards galore - it's just unhinged.

ArabellaScott · 26/06/2024 16:51

'Aber' and 'Pit' are likely Pictish.

ArabellaScott · 26/06/2024 16:50

Hoardasurass · 26/06/2024 15:56

Don't know about that but it's why we have villages with names like Auchterarder, Auchtertol and Auchtermuchti😁

I am embarrassingly fascinated by combination Pictish/Gaelic/Scots placenames. Auchter is from the Gaelice, though:

https://getoutside.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/guides/the-gaelic-origins-of-place-names-in-britain/

risefromyourgrave · 26/06/2024 16:06

The man’s an idiot.
All his ‘arguments’ boil down to is ‘fuck off’, ‘shut up’, wearing a T-shirt that calls people who don’t believe that children should be transitioned ‘freaks’, another T-shirt that says ‘you’ll have to go through me’ (ok, nowadays he looks like a stiff breeze would knock him over), and wishing that Kemi Badenoch didn’t exist.
He has the reasoning of a teenager ranting at his mum because she won’t let him out to see his friends until he tidies his bedroom.

Hoardasurass · 26/06/2024 15:56

WearyAuldWumman · 26/06/2024 13:44

I'm ashamed to say that I didn't know that. I'm a Fifer and was always told that it was because of the royal residences here at Falkland and Dunfermline.

I live and learn.

Does the Pictish heritage explain why (historically) Fife was full of short-arses, I wonder?

I recall my husband telling me that his grandfather had seen a platoon of very short men during WW1 and wondered who they were. Fife coalminers turned sappers, it turned out. My husband was from Aberdeenshire and only 5ft 7. Judging from photographs, his grandfather was no taller.

Don't know about that but it's why we have villages with names like Auchterarder, Auchtertol and Auchtermuchti😁

Nanny0gg · 26/06/2024 14:32

I found this interesting too

https://www.tiktok.com/@womenfullstop/video/7252454084349938971?lang=en

Helen Joyce on why some TRAs will absolutely have to stay 'on message' so to speak

TikTok - Make Your Day

https://www.tiktok.com/@womenfullstop/video/7252454084349938971?lang=en

Nanny0gg · 26/06/2024 14:27

LonginesPrime · 25/06/2024 14:05

So it's his wife who re-educated him then - she's presumably told him that she's fine with transwomen in women's spaces etc and so he's assumed that every other women must feel the same.

Isn't their son non-binary? (I think he's 10)

Skyellaskerry · 26/06/2024 14:12

Brainworm · 26/06/2024 13:12

Shelagh Fogarty is going to be discussing this on LBC at 3pm

Thanks @Brainworm its actually on now 2 - 3

Shortshriftandlethal · 26/06/2024 14:09

Datun · 26/06/2024 11:22

And I agree with the PP that he totally doesn't realise how partisan his audience is. He knew he'd get soft landing there, but doesn't have a clue about the rest of the country.

and it would appear from the btl comments, everywhere, that the rest of the country have massively wised up.

When, and if, the Darlington nurses' case makes more of the mainstream media people will really start to wake up - and be able to relate what is happening to people like them, in workplaces like theirs.

Shortshriftandlethal · 26/06/2024 14:07

BiggerBoat1 · 26/06/2024 08:49

He definitely got the tone wrong but I agree that Kemi B is dreadful and I too would be pleased never to hear her opinions again.
This is not a racist attack though - it’s an attack on her views which is valid. The language was wrong though and I hope he apologises.

There is a difference, though, between critiquing someone views and making personal attacks based on the fact you don't agree with those views. Kemi seems to get a lot of the latter.

DramaLlamaBangBang · 26/06/2024 14:06

TheLinguisticalGangster · 26/06/2024 13:53

Yet defending his pre-adolescent child's right to pretend he doesn't have a sex is so important to him that he's willing to stand up and demand that anyone who disagrees with him shuts up and/or ceases to exist.

And also willing to completely disregard his child's safety by putting pictures online of the child wearing a t-shirt declaring something like "Let's get one thing straight - I'm not" because declaring your 9 year old child's sexuality online is great safeguarding, isn't it? Especially when where they live and where they go to school is also available online.

I should point out that when the child in question was acting in Casualty it was in a male role, plus ca change!

He's an actor as well is he? The Tennants love a bit of nepotism. Haven't a couple of their other children gone into acting too?
Iirc Georgia Tennants 'career as a producer' consists of that one film that David bankrolled and starred in. She is an appalling actor but lives through the fame she acquires as a nepo baby/wife/mother.

TheLinguisticalGangster · 26/06/2024 13:53

Yet defending his pre-adolescent child's right to pretend he doesn't have a sex is so important to him that he's willing to stand up and demand that anyone who disagrees with him shuts up and/or ceases to exist.

And also willing to completely disregard his child's safety by putting pictures online of the child wearing a t-shirt declaring something like "Let's get one thing straight - I'm not" because declaring your 9 year old child's sexuality online is great safeguarding, isn't it? Especially when where they live and where they go to school is also available online.

I should point out that when the child in question was acting in Casualty it was in a male role, plus ca change!

EnfysPreseli · 26/06/2024 13:51

I do hope that if it does come up in the leaders' debate tonight that both Sunak and Starmer don't just condemn Tennant's words and misogyny; but also point out how regressive and oppressive it is to think that just because a child doesn't conform to narrow, old-fashioned sexist stereotypes they are no longer the sex they were at birth.

The whole ideology is absurd, othering and very judgemental - as if boys who like stereotypically feminine things are not male enough to count as boys or men, and girls who don't buy into restrictive stereotypical behaviour or cannot (or don't want to) match current beauty standards aren't real girls. What an attitude to teach children and young people!

Tennant and Moffat's son has been completely misled if he thinks he's not still a boy. Between the ages of 3 and 11 my youngest DS grew his hair, loved singing gay anthems or pretending to be Baby Spice and wearing his older sister's hand-me-down multicoloured velour leggings after school. We never once criticised his choices or suggested that he wasn't a boy because of his interests or how he dressed (although it was hard not to smile as he regularly belted out a rendition of It's Raining Men in the kitchen as an 8 year old). He was a happy, gender-non-conforming little boy who grew up to be a lovely, well-adjusted young man. And a straight, quite gender conforming, one at that.

RoyalCorgi · 26/06/2024 13:45

Datun · 26/06/2024 11:20

You have to remember, that not only did he go on a public platform, at an awards ceremony, where he would've spent some time considering what to say, he called for a woman to stop existing, told her to shut up, and all because he thinks his child is neither male nor female!

it's not only what he said, it's the basis on which he said it.

It's utterly insane. You think my child has a sex, you should cease to exist!!

I keep thinking about this now. It's completely and totally mad.

How can anyone possibly believe their child doesn't have a sex? Since when was "non-binary" even a thing? Pretty sure it wasn't around 10 years ago. And this kid is a child. Nine years old? Lots of kids that age still believe in Santa.

Yet defending his pre-adolescent child's right to pretend he doesn't have a sex is so important to him that he's willing to stand up and demand that anyone who disagrees with him shuts up and/or ceases to exist.

It's just...well, insane doesn't even begin to do justice to it.

WearyAuldWumman · 26/06/2024 13:44

Hoardasurass · 26/06/2024 10:23

Actually fife was the last home of the picts, it's called the kingdom of fife for a reason

I'm ashamed to say that I didn't know that. I'm a Fifer and was always told that it was because of the royal residences here at Falkland and Dunfermline.

I live and learn.

Does the Pictish heritage explain why (historically) Fife was full of short-arses, I wonder?

I recall my husband telling me that his grandfather had seen a platoon of very short men during WW1 and wondered who they were. Fife coalminers turned sappers, it turned out. My husband was from Aberdeenshire and only 5ft 7. Judging from photographs, his grandfather was no taller.

OvaHere · 26/06/2024 13:35

WearyAuldWumman · 26/06/2024 13:25

Apparently he's since said that he wouldn't do it nowadays.

Not because women might find his portrayal offensive though. Because other men don't like it.

Datun · 26/06/2024 13:35

CoalHouseDoor · 26/06/2024 12:13

This appalling, tone deaf luvvie-wank will backfire on him.

And now DB has weighed in, which I hope holds the Dear Leader’s feet to the fire.

The LP need to come down now on one side or another. And stop treating their female electorate like irritating girls who should play nicely together and share the toys and BE NICE

appalling, tone deaf luvvie-wank

<licks pencil> that one's definitely going in the files