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Original poster

Finally! Keeping children safe in education has been updated!

89 replies

WarriorN · 25/05/2024 12:04

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6650a1967b792ffff71a83e8/Keepingchildrennsafeinneducation_2024.pdf

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8
BeelzebubsGargoyle · 05/06/2024 09:32

Sounds positive.

Original poster
WarriorN · 05/06/2024 09:10

And - all the companies training schools will have to read Cass and reflect on key safeguarding aspects there for schools.

Burying Cass in kcsie has been significant, even if there are still a number of issues with Cass and what's been left out of the kcsie changes.

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WeMeetInFairIthilien · 05/06/2024 07:51

In all honesty, I would be astonished if the version we've seen is NOT the version I'll be trained on, in the first day back in school. The DforE works too slowly for any large changes to now be made for September.

Every single member of staff, in every single school, across the land, will have to sign to say that they have had training in the updates, and that they agree to follow the guidelines.

Phewweeww

Original poster
WarriorN · 05/06/2024 06:37

If it's statutory wouldn't a new gov have to go through the process to change it? As it's based on Cass I can't see how they could?

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BonfireLady · 05/06/2024 00:40

BonfireLady · 04/06/2024 17:39

Apologies that I haven't yet RTFW (I will!) but I'm dipping in to try and get my head around the status of the pending 2024 guidance.

'Ministers have decided that KCSIE 2024 will undergo technical changes only before final publication in September 2024, with a view to providing a more substantively updated document, encompassing wider changes, to be delivered in 2025.

This means that the important adjustment to the section about "LGBT"... will be published on 1st September, unless Labour specifically intervene to stop that happening... Yes? 🤞🤞 i.e. this amendment is classed as a "technical change". I really hope so 🤞🤞

OK I've now RTFT and I think I can answer my own question:

The guidance will be published as written on 1st September unless there are technical (presumably clashing with existing laws?) changes that need to be made. So in other words, the new section covering "LGBT", where the LGB is separated from the T, is in.

Obviously a new government could put the brakes on but presumably this would be a very odd thing to do.

Does that sound right?!

BonfireLady · 04/06/2024 17:39

Apologies that I haven't yet RTFW (I will!) but I'm dipping in to try and get my head around the status of the pending 2024 guidance.

'Ministers have decided that KCSIE 2024 will undergo technical changes only before final publication in September 2024, with a view to providing a more substantively updated document, encompassing wider changes, to be delivered in 2025.

This means that the important adjustment to the section about "LGBT"... will be published on 1st September, unless Labour specifically intervene to stop that happening... Yes? 🤞🤞 i.e. this amendment is classed as a "technical change". I really hope so 🤞🤞

Original poster
WarriorN · 04/06/2024 17:19

There is further guidance to schools (referred to in KCSIE 2024) here:

https://educationhub.blog.gov.uk/2023/12/19/gender-questioning-children-guidance-schools-colleges/

Which also includes information about toilets and other single sex spaces.

What concerns me is that as it is draft guidance it could be ripped up by the Labour government which is why I would have preferred it being included in kcsie. Though technically single sex loos are the law anyway

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Original poster
WarriorN · 04/06/2024 17:17

Hi thanks for the tags, it's still worth doing imo.

If Labour get in it's hopefully still some evidence the tories can refer to to bring to the table in future discussions.

In my honest opinion kcsie should be based on safeguarding evidence rather than crowd sourcing

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SchoolGuidanceQ · 04/06/2024 17:10

@WarriorN sorry, think I have worked it out.

The consultation is for KCSIE 2025 and only technical amendments will be made to KCSIE 2024. https://consult.education.gov.uk/safeguarding-strategy-systemic-improvement-team/safeguarding-children-in-schools-and-colleges/

'Ministers have decided that KCSIE 2024 will undergo technical changes only before final publication in September 2024, with a view to providing a more substantively updated document, encompassing wider changes, to be delivered in 2025.

Why your views matter
We are launching this 12-week call for evidence now, to take the views of schools, colleges, and other professionals on safeguarding practice development and direction, in advance of Keeping children safe in education 2025 (KCSIE). '

Safeguarding Children in Schools and Colleges: A Call for Evidence - Department for Education - Citizen Space

Find and participate in consultations run by the Department for Education

https://consult.education.gov.uk/safeguarding-strategy-systemic-improvement-team/safeguarding-children-in-schools-and-colleges/

SchoolGuidanceQ · 04/06/2024 17:03

Thanks @WarriorN only just seen this - noticed it from another thread about Pride month in schools. However, I'm confused, as there's a 12 week consultation about KCSIE that's still open till 20th June. I posted about it here https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5057233-kcsie-2025-12-week-survey-from-dfe and I still need to go in and respond to it as a school governor.

Does anyone know if it's still worth filling in the consultation?

Thanks

KCSIE 2025 - 12 week survey from DfE | Mumsnet

Please fill this in if you work in a school, as teacher, governor, TA etc. [[https://consult.education.gov.uk/safeguarding-strategy-systemic-improvem...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5057233-kcsie-2025-12-week-survey-from-dfe

MrsOvertonsWindow · 01/06/2024 20:01

Leafstamp · 01/06/2024 19:17

Article in the DM about it yesterday. It’s time that schools wound their necks in with all things “trans”.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13482315/Teachers-tell-parents-children-question-gender-right-know-unless-pupil-significant-risk-harm-say-new-rules.html

Edited

Thank heavens the Mail, Telegraph & Times are covering this stuff. Readers of the Guardian & BBC viewers will never hear about most of these important changes.

Leafstamp · 01/06/2024 19:17

Article in the DM about it yesterday. It’s time that schools wound their necks in with all things “trans”.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13482315/Teachers-tell-parents-children-question-gender-right-know-unless-pupil-significant-risk-harm-say-new-rules.html

MrsOvertonsWindow · 28/05/2024 11:54

HappyBackHome · 28/05/2024 10:28

There is further guidance to schools (referred to in KCSIE 2024) here:

educationhub.blog.gov.uk/2023/12/19/gender-questioning-children-guidance-schools-colleges/

Which also includes information about toilets and other single sex spaces.

Show quote history

It's really important that a new government doesn't bin this draft guidance. It's an important step in restoring safeguarding and stopping schools being used to gaslight children into thinking they can change sex.

HappyBackHome · 28/05/2024 10:28

WarriorN · 26/05/2024 08:42

It would be hard to remove what has been written as it's evidenced based and referred to the Cass review.

However, it doesn't mention the law regarding toilets - safety for girls and also what should be done with a gender questioning child re toilets. The proposed guidelines did but who knows if they'll go through now

It is however safeguarding children who are gender questioning by not treating it as a given and recognising that there can be driving factors

It involves parents which is good. However some parents are vehemently for transition.

And Cass doesn't fully rule out transition.
It's better than it was but still some way to go.

There is further guidance to schools (referred to in KCSIE 2024) here:

educationhub.blog.gov.uk/2023/12/19/gender-questioning-children-guidance-schools-colleges/

Which also includes information about toilets and other single sex spaces.

Rainyblue · 28/05/2024 09:01

Yes I would like there to be guidance on single sex toilets.
DS’s school has a policy that trans students can use the toilet of their preferred gender which I disagree with and if it was outlined in KCSIE that this was dangerous for female students I would think they would have to change it?

IdgieThreadgoodeIsMyHeroine · 27/05/2024 17:14

MrsOvertonsWindow · 27/05/2024 09:46

He's got a grift to maintain. A man with zero psychology, education or medical qualifications in children or changing sex has made a good living out of persuading very young children that their bodies are wrong but a sex change can fix them along with presenting queer theory to primary children.

No school should be entertaining him or his publications anywhere near children. Transgender Trend has the measure of him:

https://www.transgendertrend.com/olly-pike-popnolly-queer-theory-children/

Show quote history

Well this man is clearly a fucking weirdo who doesn't belong within 20 feet of children, isn't he?

Original poster
WarriorN · 27/05/2024 10:15

I too, I told a friend this at week and she was shocked that she wasn't aware (social worker) and I had to go off and google it to double check.

It's cited in this document.

Which is also manifesto for the banning of smart phones for children tbh.

https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/67953/html/#:~:text=A%20recent%20BBC%20freedom%20of,day%20in%20a%20UK%20school

A recent BBC freedom of information requestst found that 5500 sexual offences in schools including 600 rapes had been reported to police during a three year period. Taking into account the average length of the school term in the UK, this amounts to one rape reported per day in a UK school. We know that on average just 15%5% of rapes are reported to police, with the figure even lower (just 10%) in studieses_ of female students, suggesting that the problem may be much greater in reality*.

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mrshoho · 27/05/2024 09:59

A significant issue is that single sex loos are not defined despite one rape a day occurring on school premises.

no matter how many times I read this statement I am always shocked. It is a terrible fact of life.

Original poster
WarriorN · 27/05/2024 09:54

It's effectively safeguarding law rather than education policy / curriculum

As streeting is being open about the importance of Cass and iirc Phillipson (shadow Ed sec) welcomed the Cass review im hopeful it will be left alone. Maybe I'm being naive but they'd have to have damn good reasoning ti reverse it.

A significant issue is that single sex loos are not defined despite one rape a day occurring on school premises. The actual guidance for gender questioning children is woolly. No idea what will happen to multiple pride clubs with LGBT flags.

But it's a good start to separate the T from the lgb and to cite Cass.

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Original poster
WarriorN · 27/05/2024 09:48

MsGoodenough · 27/05/2024 09:39

It could all be scrapped by Labour by then...

As it's based on evidence from Cass they'd have to provide alternative evidence.

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MrsOvertonsWindow · 27/05/2024 09:46

ResisterRex · 27/05/2024 09:06

Gender group sends LGBT books to schools in protest

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ba50a48a-b402-467b-94aa-0c76c3662acf?shareToken=6445e91d8920fac52366a67844c29f30

He's got a grift to maintain. A man with zero psychology, education or medical qualifications in children or changing sex has made a good living out of persuading very young children that their bodies are wrong but a sex change can fix them along with presenting queer theory to primary children.

No school should be entertaining him or his publications anywhere near children. Transgender Trend has the measure of him:

https://www.transgendertrend.com/olly-pike-popnolly-queer-theory-children/

Olly Pike: the Pop’n’Olly brand of queer theory for children - Transgender Trend

There were reports in the Times and the Mail today about a new book by Olly Pike which teaches queer theory and gender identity to 8-11 year-old schoolchildren. This post by Shelley Charlesworth analyses the full range of schools books and videos from...

https://www.transgendertrend.com/olly-pike-popnolly-queer-theory-children

MrsOvertonsWindow · 27/05/2024 09:40

MsGoodenough · 27/05/2024 08:48

I suspect the activist groups will latch on to the fact that it is under review pending the results of the consultation. My school uses Equaliteach and their advice on the gender questioning and rse guidelines is 'it's out for consultation, don't change anything'. I suspect their advice on this will be 'it's under review, don't change anything'.

Which raises a question for me: if it's under review, how can it also be statutory? I'd like a response ready for when my school pushes back with the line Equaliteach have fed them.

I reckon we just have to keep citing Cass - that there's a massive medical and psychological experiment being inflicted on children with growing evidence that it's causing considerable harm and that schools should avoid getting caught up in any of it now - if only to protect the school and individuals from the accusations that will follow as children discover changing sex is impossible and they've been led down a false path?

MsGoodenough · 27/05/2024 09:39

It could all be scrapped by Labour by then...

mrshoho · 27/05/2024 09:26

This is really good news. So from September this should be part of our Safeguarding policy that we will have updated training on and all staff must sign to say they understand and will follow? I do hope so. All schools should be acting in unison instead of the postcode lottery system. So will stonewall and others be following the same?

ResisterRex · 27/05/2024 09:06

Gender group sends LGBT books to schools in protest

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ba50a48a-b402-467b-94aa-0c76c3662acf?shareToken=6445e91d8920fac52366a67844c29f30

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