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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

JK Rowling laying it out clearly

155 replies

CrossPurposes · 06/04/2024 15:39

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1776616861888655835

"I believe a woman is a human being who belongs to the sex class that produces large gametes. It’s irrelevant whether or not her gametes have ever been fertilised, whether or not she’s carried a baby to term, irrelevant if she was born with a rare difference of sexual development that makes neither of the above possible, or if she’s aged beyond being able to produce viable eggs. She is a woman and just as much a woman as the others."
Etc

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1776616861888655835

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13
Deadringer · 07/04/2024 17:35

'Ovaries of Steel' I love it. JKR rocks!

DrBlackbird · 07/04/2024 17:17

This man is so getting off on having successfully thrust himself into the lime light twittersphere by manscolding JKR on her so-called hateful tweets that he’s going to keep doing it. Time for her to ignore him.

Astariel · 07/04/2024 17:16

Judellie · 07/04/2024 13:48

Thought they said 'No Debate' BECAUSE there is no coherent argument.

Apparently some of these TRAs think Judith butler is going to save them with obsfucation, poor scholarship and actual plagiarism masquerading as argument.

But St Judith said it, so it’s against the law to question or critique it.

SidewaysOtter · 07/04/2024 15:34

FannyCann · 07/04/2024 11:43

The lengths some men will go to (try) to shut up *that woman.

Speaking to her Bishop??? (Who apparently had no problem sharing confidential information regarding her Church attendance rather than telling said man this was not an appropriate conversation).

x.com/mollscroll/status/1776698089685782529?s=46

It’s the equivalent of someone “having a word” with your partner becuase they didn’t get the “right” response from you. Or a door-to-door salesman asking to speak to your husband 🙄

fightingthedogforadonut · 07/04/2024 15:01

JKR - is you are on here, know that you are loved a million times over for continuing to stand up and be counted.

Mochudubh · 07/04/2024 14:41

Thanks @VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia for the XX/XY chimera explanation. It's like the (vanishingly rare) exception that proves the rule I think.

Also thanks to posters who recognised the film I referred to as Predestination. I thought it must have been some pish we watched on the Sci-fi channel but seems to have been a bigger release than that. I just looked it up on IMDB to remind myself just how bonkers it is and it gets 7.4 out of ten with rave reviews. That's even more bonkers.

Edited to correct typo.

UtopiaPlanitia · 07/04/2024 14:29

Judellie · 07/04/2024 13:48

Thought they said 'No Debate' BECAUSE there is no coherent argument.

They said 'No Debate' because the chaps in Malaga airport are a great argument for the opposition position.

Chersfrozenface · 07/04/2024 14:27

Riverlee · 07/04/2024 14:23

Unfortunately, there’s one word wrong with her quote - ‘ believe’. It’s not a belief, it’s a fact. Should say, ‘’I Know’.

Apart from that, marvelous!

Knowledge isn't a protected characteristic.

Belief is.

Strange world.

Riverlee · 07/04/2024 14:23

Unfortunately, there’s one word wrong with her quote - ‘ believe’. It’s not a belief, it’s a fact. Should say, ‘’I Know’.

Apart from that, marvelous!

Runningupthecurtains · 07/04/2024 14:20

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 07/04/2024 13:05

Biologically, women are babymaking machines. We aren't just babymaking machines though, we are more than just babymaking machines.

Again they willfully miss the flip side. The fact that men also have a biological function. Having it doesn't mean you have to use it, or that you only magically spark in to life when you use it or that functions correctly. It just means that the categories of male and female exist to enable reproduction and that those differences are immutable.

HPFA · 07/04/2024 13:56

Judellie · 07/04/2024 13:48

Thought they said 'No Debate' BECAUSE there is no coherent argument.

I do think there are coherent arguments.

"Transpeople are people whose specific medical condition requires them to be treated as if they were of the opposite sex and society should accommodate that just as it accommodates the needs of diabetics" is a coherent argument - again, I didn't say it was a GOOD one.

But of course many (most) trans people don't accept it is a medical condition so it's not one Stonewall et al can put forward. And it's the same with any other potentially coherent argument you might put forward.

QueenOfTheEntireFuckingUniverse · 07/04/2024 13:51

FannyCann · 07/04/2024 11:43

The lengths some men will go to (try) to shut up *that woman.

Speaking to her Bishop??? (Who apparently had no problem sharing confidential information regarding her Church attendance rather than telling said man this was not an appropriate conversation).

x.com/mollscroll/status/1776698089685782529?s=46

I'd be surprised if her Bishop even knows how often she goes to church. Mine certainly wouldn't. Mind you, I'm a touch less famous so my Bishop probably doesn't know who I am.

Judellie · 07/04/2024 13:48

Thought they said 'No Debate' BECAUSE there is no coherent argument.

HPFA · 07/04/2024 13:38

Lion400 · 07/04/2024 11:40

😂🙈 As if they haven’t already embarrassed themselves enough. When in deep dig deeper, we might find the other side 😂

The problem with "No Debate" was that the other side never had the need to put together a coherent argument.

There are a few arguments you could use to claim that transwomen should be treated as female (not saying there are GOOD arguments) but all of them would be rejected by some trans people as being "trans-med", transphobic, or something else. So they're now in a terrible muddle trying to use bits and bobs of different arguments that aren't even vaguely coherent, let alone convincing.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 07/04/2024 13:30

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 07/04/2024 13:24

It's absolutely shit to infertile women and it's pretty shit for the intentionally childfree too.

The commonality between childfree and infertile women is that we both spend our lives battling our reproductive anatomy: you to try to get it to work as it should, and me to stop it from working as it should. Men don't face this at all and they don't and can't understand it.

Men don't face this at all and they don't and can't understand it.

As illustrated beautifully by this thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/4807134-found-a-pregnancy-test

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 07/04/2024 13:24

Theeyeballsinthesky · 07/04/2024 09:10

as a childless woman I don’t know why TRA think weaponising my infertility and that of women like me and implying that ppl think women who haven’t had children are like men is some kind of vote winning gotcha 🤪

It's absolutely shit to infertile women and it's pretty shit for the intentionally childfree too.

The commonality between childfree and infertile women is that we both spend our lives battling our reproductive anatomy: you to try to get it to work as it should, and me to stop it from working as it should. Men don't face this at all and they don't and can't understand it.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 07/04/2024 13:05

HPFA · 07/04/2024 08:38

Been checking the reaction on Twitter.

So far the counter-arguments are:

"Even though she says she doesn't think women are just baby-making machines she actually does think that"

"Even though she says she's not transphobic she actually is".

My favourite was probably the person who declared the whole thing was obviously wrong and then when challenged as to whether they'd read it said "of course I haven't read anything written by a transphobe"

But basically it's all the same thing:

"Women aren't just a biological function".

"Yes, she spends two long paragraphs explaining that".

"Women aren't just gametes"

"Yes, she spent two long paragraphs explaining that"

"What about women who can't have children?"

"Yes, she spent......

You get the idea.

Biologically, women are babymaking machines. We aren't just babymaking machines though, we are more than just babymaking machines.

LizzieSiddal · 07/04/2024 12:24

What a lovely piece of writing from Suzanne Flowers

FannyCann · 07/04/2024 11:43

The lengths some men will go to (try) to shut up *that woman.

Speaking to her Bishop??? (Who apparently had no problem sharing confidential information regarding her Church attendance rather than telling said man this was not an appropriate conversation).

x.com/mollscroll/status/1776698089685782529?s=46

JK Rowling laying it out clearly
Lion400 · 07/04/2024 11:40

HPFA · 07/04/2024 08:38

Been checking the reaction on Twitter.

So far the counter-arguments are:

"Even though she says she doesn't think women are just baby-making machines she actually does think that"

"Even though she says she's not transphobic she actually is".

My favourite was probably the person who declared the whole thing was obviously wrong and then when challenged as to whether they'd read it said "of course I haven't read anything written by a transphobe"

But basically it's all the same thing:

"Women aren't just a biological function".

"Yes, she spends two long paragraphs explaining that".

"Women aren't just gametes"

"Yes, she spent two long paragraphs explaining that"

"What about women who can't have children?"

"Yes, she spent......

You get the idea.

😂🙈 As if they haven’t already embarrassed themselves enough. When in deep dig deeper, we might find the other side 😂

MarieDeGournay · 07/04/2024 11:33

this is what I hazily remember from O level Biology.
Flipping heck, Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g, you've just explained 'haploid' in some detail based on O level biology, and unless you're actually currently studying for O level biology, that's an impressive feat of memory ☺
Thank you.
Being a techie, I am familiar with 'haptic' and thought haploid would be related. They're not, one is from the Greek for single, the other for touch.
Now is there a philologist specialising in ancient Greek out there that can tie both words to a 'hap-' root?
Only kidding (though knowing MNers,there probably is!) and I'll stop derailing now.
None of this is intended to detract from the main theme, ie the wonderfulness of JKR. She'd probably forgive this derail because it's about words☺

SerendipityJane · 07/04/2024 11:26

I vaguely remember someone trying to describe polyploidy to me once. All I took away was a scrabble word I've never had a chance to use.

TinselAngel · 07/04/2024 11:22

JKR's response to me on this means that after 7 years of campaigning my most popular tweet is a lame joke about beetroot Grin

GoldenSpraint · 07/04/2024 11:17

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