Stonewall states that “misgendering” isn’t a crime

While generally it's "their site their rules", I think the law applies as much as IRL. So you can ban/delete anyone for any reason other than belonging to a group protected in law.

That's "I think" as in "I am not a lawyer etc etc" I would be fascinated (and defer to) a real lawyers view.

Time for a spot of reeducation.

Or should that be rereeducation?

The idea that it is respectful to use pronouns, won't last imho.

Not when it comes accompanied by threats and abuse if you don't. Thats not how real life works.

It just got harder for cash strapped organisations and businesses to justify pronoun badges and training...

The bar for MN posts is higher than just what is legal, though. It's legal to call someone a fucking wanker but if you do that to another poster you'll get deleted. Though I think if you call a public figure a fucking wanker you'll generally be OK.

I certainly agree that posts should not be deleted for saying what sex a public figure is, but I suppose the legality of such a statement is not the salient point..

I like the fact they have drawn parallels to religion.

It emphasises that it's a belief system not fact.

Stonewall hasn't said it's not wrong, it said it wasn't a crime

I repeat my earlier comment "It is possible to coerce people into a demanded/desired behaviour without laws. Policies, rules, "values" in employment and social organisations, all imposed with the threat of sanctions for any perceived transgression." To which I will add, rules imposed on social media and in publications.

The deletions are the result of MN rules on terminology and the actions of monitors who complain to MNHQ about "breaches" of those rules.

This reminds me of the desperate reverse ferret Mermaids had to pull when the Government ordered it to stop saying, in Mermaids' educational pack for schools, that it's possible for 'children to be born in the wrong body'.

Mermaids went into a scramble and even tried to claim that they had never said that children can be born into the wrong body despite ample extant evidence to the contrary.

This reverse ferret from Stonewall is similar.

The last five years have been like watching a high school bully in action but played out over vast organisations. The bully will take more and more from his victim if he is not checked. But often the bully is also subconsciously aware that he stands on shaky ground, with nothing to back him up other than fear and intimidation.

If a brave person pokes the slightest hole in the bully's carapace of emtpy threats and intimidating behaviour, the bully crumples like a deflated bouncy castle. All the hot air is let out. That is what is happening with the TRA industrial complex right now.

I love to see it.

Malcolm Clarke AT TwisterFilm
You know the best thing about the Hate Crime Act? Thousands of ordinary Scots who were half-afraid to call hulking blokes in dresses ...MEN....now know it's absolutely fine to do so. Like everything else the SNP does it has had the opposite effect from that intended.

The latest update I can find is from 9th June last year, saying "I have been notified today by the Employment Appeal Tribunal that my appeal has passed the sift stage and will proceed to a full hearing."

I can't find anything about a full hearing, but since the Tribunal system seems to move slower than the mills of God, this may not be surprising

They are truly a remarkably awful group of people. To stand by and watch women harassed for this very thing only to produce this, now.

They were prepared to burn witches for witchcraft and now they’re standing there with the matches hiding behind their back. Despicable.

Isnt Alison Bailey still appealing on Stonewall's contribution?

It is possible to coerce people into a demanded/desired behaviour without laws. Policies, rules, "values" in employment and social organisations, all imposed with the threat of sanctions for any perceived transgression

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioural_Insights_Team

Remember Stonewall has a funding issue. One that isn't as bad as Mermaids expenses v income columns. Yet. But there's every reason to suspect it will go that way fairly quickly.

The corporate rainbowwashing bubble is starting to burst. The do-gooders looking for a cause have moved onto the next bandwagon.

Wow.

Just wow.

So they've revert to the evil bigot defensive line. I must say, I don't see that one lasting long with the numbers of teens who eyeroll now.

Dam has burst.

Rats and ships spring to mind at this point.

I hope that somewhere a GC training provider is waiting in the wings with an up-to-date course for businesses and institutions previously captured by Stonewall et al. Something is going to be needed that will address facts and law, and rectify the damage that's been done.

I quite agree.

It is possible to coerce people into a demanded desired behaviour without laws. Policies, rules, "values" in employment and social organisations, all imposed with the threat of sanctions for any perceived transgression

For example, https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5039445-disciplinary-action-for-ons-female-employees-if-they-object-to-trans-colleagues-using-their-lavatories

All these silly institutions that think misgendering is bad, tut tut, going to have to go in and train them AMIRITE?

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

I don’t agree, misgendering has been called “ literal violence” too many times, I don’t believe that Stonewall has had a light filled moment of revelation for no reason. They are plotting something.

I feel some of the comments on this thread are very unfair. Weasels are fearless, resourceful predators and as Britain's smallest carnivore often hunt animals larger than themselves. Weasel mothers are the sole providers for their litter and will fiercely defend their young against larger attackers.

I will offer up "a bunch of brazen Tatchells" as an alternative.

That's going to be Stonewall, isn't it? Deny, minimize, project..
I just wish some of the big organizations who bought in their dodgy advice and now realise they've been sold a pup (a pop with huge legal implications...one for the AI to visualise!) they'll sue the living daylights out of them.😠

Stonewall managed to weasel out of any blame in the Alison Bailey case.

Stonewall is biding its time until the general election puts the mealy-mouthed Labour Party into power. It will then use the statute book to douse us. Or rather, try to douse us.

Our fight is far from won.

Some of you may have come across that very very accurate piece of pop psychology about narcissists - the self centered kind, not the mirror kind.

That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did...
You deserved it.

And they walk away, trailing clouds of innocence.

That's going to be Stonewall, isn't it? Deny, minimize, project..
I just wish some of the big organizations who bought in their dodgy advice and now realise they've been sold a pup (a pop with huge legal implications...one for the AI to visualise!) they'll sue the living daylights out of them.😠

Yes, I agree, and I think this is one of my slight concerns with the Forstater judgement. Despite all of the protections it has given, and the wedge to continue having this conversation, sex isn't just a belief, it is an independently-verifiable fact that we can determine with a ridiculous degree of accuracy.