ASD son & GenderGP - Help needed

Yes, Dr Bell raised that point on the BBC interview yesterday - that 17-25 years olds.in this cohort are vulnerable, but they were outwith Cass' remit.

I don't have any answers and I am sorry you (and your son) are going through this.

GenderGP are a disaster - totally cavalier. Local practice here is not to do any shared care with them which means all appointments, blood monitoring, prescriptions carry costs. And that continues until an NHS clinic takes over (assuming patient is on a waiting list) which can be 2-7 years. That is quite a bit of cash. However, your DC is at uni and it is possible that they will find a GP to take over care. If you could express concern (as PP) about the provider and persuade your DC to go with a better outfit, there may be a bit more in the way of assessment and preparation.

I don't know all the risks etc but I don't think anorgasmia is an issue if puberty is complete. However libido shrinks a lot on oestrogen, for many. Fertility seems very hit and miss - there is a real risk it will be irreversibly impaired (and I am not confident that GenderGP counsel for this as their letters are cut-and-paste) but it isn't guaranteed.

The 17-25 autistic kids are really vulnerable. I don't have a solution but many people say Bayswater is very helpful. My sympathies.

I'm really sorry you're going through this.

Baywswater Support are a good shout. Their website is good and I've used them for support though my own DC is a bit older, mid twenties and had already left home, DC also decided to get hormones from GenderGP. I tried to raise some questions but DC mainly dismissed them and was very willing to accept risks in future for sake of the here and now.

I have not really been able to find clear objective studies of risks, on humans, that a patient or a parent could make sense of - and I'm well educated in a tech subject and understand enough statistics to know what a confidence interval is. To be honest I'm not sure how much difference it would make, many (not all) detransitioners say that nothing a parent can say would have made any difference to them. My main concern was to keep contact with DC and avoid alienation because DC also has an ASC diagnosis and needs me.

Fertility preservation is not a requirement. I nearly talked DC into fertility preservation which DC could have had free on the NHS (not possible everywhere) but DC changed DC's mind because after only a few months DC's sperm count was already too low and DC would not pause the hormones for it. So, if the effects do become permanent (which they do for some people, I don't know the exact risks though they rise over time) well, too bad for DC and for anyone who cares about DC.

DC's experience with GenderGP has also been along the lines of @Pinkmagics "try this, then this" rather than setting goals and assessing risks and benefits.

Your DC might look into GenderCare instead of GenderGP. One of DC's friends uses them, I think they're still in practice and they are at least UK based and do look slightly less casual than GenderGP. Although it's not totally reassuring to learn that "Dr Lorimer practises according to guidelines from the World Professional Association for Trans Health (WPATH)"

Sorry if that all sounds a bit brutal. This just is brutal.

Ah, sorry @RingRingDoor my mistake.

I was just reading the thread about NHS puberty blockers and this excerpt from a post from @Brainworm might provide the OP and others insight :

^The key issue is that of formulation. Patients with trans identities often arrive with fixed ideas about their symptoms and the cause- my body is wrong, I need treatment to change my body, regardless of any contraindications arising. They believe that no other outcomes to that of changing their bodies (halting puberty and/or changing hormone levels) are significant.

A healthcare professional's formulation should include exploring a range of potential underlying causes for the presenting symptoms (dysphoria) and should aim to treat the causes rather than the symptoms.

'Power and oppression' and post modern narratives can be like kryptonite to well educated/professional healthcare practitioner's critical thinking skill. We see the negative impacts of inequality and discrimination on health outcomes for marginalised groups and are frustrated by being limited to treating the symptoms of this.

There is validity to claims that patient's healthcare experiences are often that of experiencing further marginalisation. However, related research often flags up issue to do with marginalised groups not being fully informed about the full range of possible treatments, or not being considered for the full rage, and too little research being undertaken relating to outcomes (or symptoms) pertaining to the specific group. There is a widespread movement relating to 'doing with' rather than 'doing to' when it comes to research and development.

TRAs stand out here. They reject the 'doing with' and consider anything other than 'do as we say' oppressive. I think this may come from a similar place as a functioning alcoholic not wanting treatment as they fear having to give up alcohol, and self harmers fearing losing the relief that comes from cutting. I expect many with gender dysphoria fear losing the relief that comes from their gender identity.

However, those working in addiction services (and, interestingly, many effective treatments for anorexia and self harm are based on these being conceptualised as an addiction) have been more successful in navigating (tolerating?) patient anger and resentment. They do adopt approaches that seek to empower patients and 'do-with' but are clear that the outcomes they are working towards are based on improving functioning.

In short, I don't think there is any place for treating 'identity' in medicine. Identity in itself should not require medical intervention, the exception being when it negatively impacts on functioning. When this happens, the goal of treatment should be to return to full functioning.

Further discussion on page 18 of that thread (Page 18 | No more puberty blockers for children from the NHS - reported in the Times! | Mumsnet)

@SisterSupport started the thread but I was talking to @SisterMidnight77 who didn't say how old her son was.

If he's under 18 he probably wouldn't be able to fund private prescriptions himself without parental support.

I was talking to a different lady than the OP...

@RingRingDoor He's 19 and puberty blockers have only been halted by NHS England, OP's son is going privately to Gender GP who are still allowed to prescribe.

If we want to shut down Gender GP's access to children then Liz Truss' bill needs support

URGENT: Ask your MP to support the bill! - Sex Matters (sex-matters.org)

How old is he? Are you in England?

They've now banned all hormone therapy for under 18s so he wouldn't be able to go down that route now.

I think the first, most pressing thing might be to get him to see that Gender GP are not the people to help him with this.

Might the one-star reviews here help? GenderGP Transgender Services Reviews | Read Customer Service Reviews of gendergp.com (trustpilot.com)

After that, then the advice from Bayswater Support Group linked above will be invaluable.

Such an interesting discussion. Different approaches work with different children obviously. What matters is that parents enable children to access all aspects of this. Not just the cheerleading euphoria or terrifying suicidal threats from transactivists but the detailed evidenced about the massive risks and irrevocable life changing decisions they're being gaslit into making.

I'm not sure if there's a way of replying without quoting ...

Yes, with him I support the idea that he has some kind of dysphoria but I don't agree with his solutions at all. I want him to wait until he's much older before making any life-altering decisions but he is adamant he can't wait and won't wait.

I would persevere in doing so though, it may not change the outcome but at least someone would be being truthful to him and you'll know you did your best to warn him of the path he's facing.

It's so difficult, you have my sympathy.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5025980-update-on-gender-questioning-daughter?page=1

@SisterMidnight77 this is my thread, under a name change.

It worked for you then. It won't work for some others (maybe most).

It worked with my own daughter. I just kept instilling this and removed consent for school to use male pronouns.

Months later she's back to her normal self.

After 3 years of 'being kind' I was truthful and vigilant and it broke the spell.

This will almost certainly not work. I doubt very much that he will listen. We have told our son (also ASD, ADHD) 'the realities' (in quite graphic terms) but he doesn't care. He just wants to transition.

£65 is only the start of it.

It's £195 to enrol, £30 a month plus consultations plus bloods plus meds.

There's prices on their website. It will soon add up for him.

Also may be worth dropping in that ‘you are not rebelling, you are being used to make big pharmer even more profits’
’when it goes out of fashion you’ll be left looking like a mug’ not in so many words!
and yes to the person above - i heard similar from a girl detransitioner, that you don’t fit in . Your own sex don’t feel comfy with you, the sex you are trying to be are the same, so you have shrunk your social group to a very narrow range

little miss viper this sounds like such a good idea. I think it’s worth not reacting or going in all guns blazing with how apalling tesetosterone etc is, but being non comittal with your opinions and doing as little miss says seems like a great idea.
i was told the same by our daughter, and when i just said,’oh that’s interesting etc, she kept talking. As soon as i panicked and tried to explain the dangers she cut me off.
so don’t do what i did.
I think the idea of being like a beautiful person on you tube isn’t thought through as a goal with milestones and benefits, rather it’s encouraged in a piecemeal ‘try this, not trans enough, try this..’ and the dream gets ever further away.
bayswater group are also very good.
i think as soon as you let emotion or trying to convince them out of it he will stick his heels in. gentle curiosity.
hugs.

Yesterday I watched Stella O'Malley and Sasha Ayad's Detransition Awareness Day discussion with a 22(?) year old, gay, autistic man called Scarlet who was put on the drug-based male to female medical pathway at a very young age and is now trying to work out who he is and what he wants. Although his story is a childhood as well as young adult story, there might be parts that are useful to you or your son.

Scarlet's accepting of any pronouns used by others towards him, wants to keep his chosen name of Scarlet, and presents as androgynous. He comes across as a lovely person, so sensitive and self-aware. At the time of the interview, he's come off medication to see what happens and towards the end talks about 'letting nature do its thing'. The whole discussion is very gentle and non-judgemental.

His supportive mother and he struggled a lot to get answers to the effects drugs might have on his body as he grew up. Lots of what he says was familiar from other detransitioners but there were things that I hadn't heard expressed before, like the the fact that with a different body, he didn't attract men of his own age who were into standard gay male relationships but that he now found himself, as a male with breasts, in a place where he'd become attractive to older men who were into 'unusual' body types. He talks about the trans overlap with AGP and fetishism from others - he's clear that he isn't AGP. He also discusses some side effects of hormones such as having to deal with pain from muscle spasms, UTIs and hot flushes which haven't gone away even though he's stopped taking the drugs. Lots of food for thought. It's just a bit different because he's not going from male to female to male in a stereotyped way but from male to female to something else. I was left thinking about how he could he have got from male to 'something else' in a different way that avoided the drugs.
https://www.widerlenspod.com/p/episode-154

If it's one of his special interests, I'd let him focus on it. By that, I mean ask him to plan out exactly what he's planning to do to achieve his transition. Ask him to write up a timeline plan, the names of the drugs, surgical recovery times, costs, the pros and cons of each step, etc.

Be genuinely interested in his journey of discovery; let him tell you about what he's found out, and ask for clarification on further areas. For example, finding out the success rates and side effects of medication/surgery, what a poor outcome would be, and whether that's an acceptable risk. Check his sources for credibility. Ask how his university career will be impacted. Give him time to go and investigate for himself and write it all into a master plan.

I'd then be asking at which point in the process he will have considered himself successfully transitioned, and does it rely on everyone else agreeing? (They won't - there's zero chance that everyone will ever 100% agree on anything!) The answer might also give some clues as to his underlying motivations and whether he's actually thought much beyond HRT being sold as some kind of miracle.

Once it's set out in black and white, you can clarify whether he really wants to spend £££££ on making himself infertile. (Not to mention being potentially incontinent and dealing with lifelong pain, as well as potentially shrinking his dating pool down to a puddle.) You could also compare what else that £££££ might be spent on.

If the special interest hasn't shifted, and he still wants to proceed after all that... Well, he's an adult and you can't stop him. But hopefully he won't be going into it completely naïve, at least!

There’s a podcast about the Tavistock GIDS clinic and the last episode is all about Gender GP. It was reasonably balanced about the Tavistock, presenting strengths and difficulties of the service, and what led to it’s expansion and closure. But the one about gender GP is rather damming. Long shot, but would he be interested in listening to it?