Why are separate spaces for trans people unacceptable (to trans people)?

You might want to think about how good Shon "enjoy your erasure" Faye is as a poster boy in this debate....

I don't get why TW validation is more important that Bio Women's dignity and privacy for intensely intimate bodily functions...

Because one of those is the sex that matters, and one is the support human sex. It really is that simple.

Non-argument. After all, most men aren't pervy fetishists who hate women. (Well, I'm not so sure about the last part.) But regardless, they don't belong in our toilets. They are an increased risk for our safety, dignity and privacy. And they piss everywhere.

Comfy! You’re not going to Sainsbury’s in a mini skirt I imagine. But jeans would be my number one thing, probably linen trousers in the summer for everyday wear.
even my friends who wear office wear now it’s trousers and a nice top.

The young man who frequents my town wears wears short sparkly tops and eyeshadow, heels and shiney leggings which show off his appendage.

This.

As they say, hips don’t lie! Female and male skeletal structure is very different and we move very differently

I still don't understand how 3rd gender neutral spaces are outing - I've used gender neutral spaces when the women's have been full and I've been desperate - don't get me wrong, I was very on edge, and the lack of sanitary bin was frustrating but like.. it's not the end of the world?
And if bio women can and will use them when they have to, I don't see how it's outing in the slightest - Especially not in this world of Non Binary - Let's say a TW passes and she used the neutral room, who's to say people will assume she's male rather than NB or just a lass desperate for a wee when all the other cubicles in the women's are full???
It's bs.

I don't get why TW can't seem to understand that women do much more in bathrooms than just pee or gasp poop.
Period accidents happen.
Miscarriages happen.
Toddler & Baby accidents happen.
Like, I'm sorry but these things simply DO NOT happen in the men's and TW will never experience or understand them or give women the space and dignity they need in those times.
Validation is King, or should I say Queen to them.

I don't get why TW validation is more important that Bio Women's dignity and privacy for intensely intimate bodily functions...
I don't want to wash off bloody knickers in a sink where a TW could walk in.
Even more so knowing how much periods are... Idk the correct wording, I'm trying to avoid saying fetishized but I don't know how else to describe it when you have TW who exist who are fascinated by them and want to do anything and everything they can to emulate them.
Buying tampons, buying fake blood popper things, feigning cramps for videos online and grinning whilst they do it etc....

And before anyone comes in to say "TW don't do that!" Check out youtube or reddit or tiktok. Yes. Yes they do.
Not all of them, we're not deluded as to think that, but some of them - enough of them for it to be a genuine concern. And as other PP's have said, how are we supposed to tell the difference?
Oh, wait. We can't.
That's the problem so many bio women have with this.

So agree and I'll be the first in the clue. Innocent question here. If the TW hasn't fully transitioned, will she commit the same crimes as men about not lifting the lav seat?

What's middle aged women's clothes? Like jeans and a jumper? I'm a middle aged woman. I wear jeans, jumpers and sportswear. On my feet I wear runners and boots. I'd say my mum and even my grandmother dress more or less the same. I wear more sportswear but I'm very sporty.

There's one here who wears a black mini dress, pink flip flops and a bucket hat.

OnceinaMinion · Today 12:01

ive never seen one who actually dresses like a woman, especially a middle aged woman. It’s some weird outdated view of what they wear.

There are at least 6 in my little area of Newcastle. 3 of them do dress in middle aged women's clothes, although one likes their pleated grey skirt, with stocking tops on show. One dresses up in fetish stuff and Nu Rocks. The other two tend to wear, well, tarty looking stuff.

I've never seen any of them in the Gent's.

Yeah I was waiting for someone yesterday at the bottom of a hill that's popular with joggers. Every single time I saw someone crest the hill I could tell if it was a man or a woman. As in even before the lower half of their body was visible, before I could make out hair length, face, body shape, etc. Just the bounce of the top half of a far off silhouette, was enough for me to know their sex every single time. Without doubt, I just knew male from female.

No-one older than 14 passes in real life.

Men are dangerous to women except for the ones who pretend that they’re women too? Have I got that right?

Yes. Now stop. Stop trying to use any reason or logic or common sense or facts.
How about you just stop thinking about it at all because pointing out the contradictory bullshit of gender ideology or daring to question their motives makes these men look bad.

Nope. Nothing to see here......

This

Because TW are both proud to be trans and yet, simultaneously, literally women in every way possible.

Somehow this makes sense, but no-one has ever been able to explain to me how.

That sounds about right. According to the trans activists all men who claim to be women are angels.

The very long list of men who claim to be women who murdered, raped, molested children or had a mass shooting, well those aren't really trans or we just made it all up.

Because we are silly stupid weak women but also powerful nazis.

This. All day long. 👏

I’m new to this whole situation, but is this how it goes?

TW are natally male and may or may not have had surgery. In any event they’re rocking XY.

Then

People who are XY (men) are inherently dangerous to women, and that’s why we need female only spaces.

But then also

TW are also XY so they are therefore inherently dangerous to women and shouldn’t be in female only spaces

And Yet

TW argue they need to be in female only spaces because male ones are too dangerous.

So the only people who are dangerous to women are men, but not men who decide to identify as women.

At what point does their inherent danger as a consequence of their XY, disappear?

Men are dangerous to women except for the ones who pretend that they’re women too? Have I got that right?

It’s such an interesting debate. Because as a woman (or cis woman). If I need to go toilet, I need to go. And the separation of space is so that I can feel safe away from men during quite a private moment and to use female facilities such as the period bins etc.

If I really need to go toilet, I, even as a woman will use the third space which at the moment are the disabled toilet or parent units. I have absolutely no problem doing this and the fact that this debate is usually about trans women (as opposed to trans men) demanding these spaces is frustrating because most places now have said third space. Perhaps a small pub or similar wouldn’t. Some places only have 1 loo if they are that tiny (like a Starbucks or something).

If you need to go, you need to go. As a cis woman I have used the male toilets if the woman’s is out of order or if the queue has been so long I’m bursting. Usually if a man’s there (I don’t do this often btw), they will sarcastically point at the sign or gently tell me I’m in the wrong one.

I think men also appreciate having single sex places to urinate.

Clearly the issue isn’t access. As many have said it’s a validation issue. It’s a deep desire to be validated by using female facilities even if it puts other women in some sort of discomfort. Which is just unfair. Why should women’s voices be blocked out again - or do trans people see us as privileged and so we are not allowed to be part of this debate?

I think society should always have third spaces. As a mum, sometimes I need a third space. There are so many conditions in life that require it.

I think the toilet debate should be one of those where we accept that there should be single sex facilities to keep people safe. And a third space which can be used by absolutely anyone.

Can you set out the complexities of the issue? It's important to have clarity if you want people to discuss it, otherwise people are just guessing what you mean.

Personally I don't think it's complex. Transmen are female and therefore entitled to use the women's facilities the same as me. The End.

Your response doesn't fit what you originally said. If you want no pee on a loo seat, you won't get that in 'inclusive / gender free / unisex / omnisex loos', as you put it, yet you appeared to be recommending their installation & their use by women.

But it doesn't matter. I asked for reasoning & evidence, & there is none, so there's my answer.

It isn't complex at all because it isn't an even comparison. The risk in these situations is on the basis of sex.

Transmen don't pose a risk to the men in those spaces because of their female bodies. They are simply not a viable threat to men. They also make the choice to take that risk.

Men in women's spaces pose a risk to all the women in those spaces because of their sex. Women aren't choosing to be put at risk in what should be their safe single sex spaces. They are being forced to go along with it.

Why should one group of men suddenly be immune from all societal rules, safeguarding and laws that apply to all other men just because they say they are women?

Why would a transman need to be in a mens loo if everyone uses the correct toilets for their sex?

Are you saying a transman , as a female, would be unsafe in toilets with males? If so why aren’t women/ females considered unsafe in a toilet with males if males are using the womens toilets because they are transwomen?

Yes the aim is clearly to prevent women from having privacy, disempowering women so that men can have unfettered access to them