Year 8 trans child - in secret

Either a boy being more comfortable as a girl or a girl being more comfortable as a boy.

Can you explain what this means?

And a definition of 'gender identity' would be useful, too.

I answered your last question.
‘they are trans’ is someone who is trans. Either a boy being more comfortable as a girl or a girl being more comfortable as a boy.

online the definition of ‘trans’ is:

denoting or relating to a person whose gender identity does not correspond with the sex registered for them at birth; transgender.

You haven't answered my questions.

What does 'they are trans' mean? How are you defining 'trans'?

Kids don't like being lied to about this, whatever their age. This thread was about a much younger child (a boy who started school aged 4, pretending to be a girl).

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4994208-4-year-old-boy-started-primary-school-as-a-girl?page=1

This is from the Telegraph article (link in the other thread)

She said that after repeatedly asking her child if something was wrong, her child told her earlier this month that she knew “the secret” that her classmate was really a boy.

The mother said her daughter was “distraught” that her friend had “lied” to her and that she had been “holding hands with a boy”.

She said the trans-identifying child had been “flashing their willy” at the girls.

BY NOT OUTING THEM TO THEIR PEERS!!! ffs

@GreenYoshi12
We don’t know if the child thinks they can change sex - they know that they are trans and that should be supported.

What does 'they are trans' mean? How are you defining 'trans'? In what way should a child's belief that 'they are trans' be supported?

Year 8. So, age 11-13ish. "Kids being kids," you say, as if they were 5 years old. No, they are on the cusp of puberty - some may already have undergone puberty. Of course some girls will have friends who are boys, but I'll bet you anything those aren't the friends they choose to compare notes on tampons, or blood leakage, or period pains, or breast growth and bra sizes.

The bottom line line is that if this child is transgender, it will come out sooner or later. Whether the OP precipitates it or not. What plans do the SLT have in place for managing the distress for the child, the rest of the pupils and all the parents?

We don’t know if the child thinks they can change sex - they know that they are trans and that should be supported.
I don’t know about you but I’ve never spoken to any female friends about my periods - I’ve spoken about periods in front of males in my family and it was no issue. It’s anatomy. You can have male and female friends and it can be purely platonic.
What about if another child ‘outed’ to another about Santa not being real?
A child may get over that after days or weeks. But a child being othered and outed by their friends for their sexuality and being trans is incredibly damaging to them and shouldn’t be done maliciously.
It is malicious, however you phrase it, to out a child as it’s ‘scientific’

What? So because kids don’t see any barriers for friendships you’re assuming they are being lied to? They’re kids being kids

The child needs to know that they can't change sex. The adults who are lying to this child and telling them that they can are going to cause this child more mental health issues than they already must have if they think they are the opposite sex. Other people correctly recognising their sex are not to blame for this.

Why do you describe correctly recognising this child's sex as 'outing' them?

And yes, children do need to know the sex of their friends. When girls are talking to their friends about things like periods, how do you think they will feel when they find out that one of these 'girls' is actually a boy?

Pretending to children that a child has changed sex is abusive to that child, who might believe that fantasy to be possible, and abusive to the other children who are friends and classmates of that child and who are being lied to about their sex.

There are no issues here. You just want to out this child for no reason which is wrong and malicious.

There is a big divide between boy friendship groups and girl friendship groups. I'm not saying there is no crossover, but boys generally choose boys as friends and girls choose girls as friends. Toilets and changing rooms aside, and assuming they don't actually know this child is a boy, it's really not fair on the other girls to put them in the position of welcoming this child into their friendship groups, their parties, their secrets, possibly discussions about puberty, on the assumption that the child is a girl. They're being lied to about something really, really fundamental.

All of this outing malarkey assumes humans don't have eyes of course.

Because the other parents nor the other children need to know this. You are outing them to their community and friends - this can lead to bullying and mental health issues.
The OP has already clarified about the toilets situation so that’s not an issue. There are no issues here. You just want to out this child for no reason which is wrong and malicious.
Would you out a child/parents if they were in a gay relationship? No as that’s malicious and that is what you are suggesting on doing to A CHILD.

Why would it be 'dangerous' for this child if the other children and their parents knew that they were lying about their sex?

Why do you say that if one of the parents knew this that telling the other parents must be being 'done with malicious intent'? I would assume that it was done simply to inform the other parents about the actual sex of this child.

It will fall on deaf ears I'm sure, but no - forcibly outing a trans child is a heinous thing to do.

The parents and teachers should never have enabled this situation by lying to all the other children. It's a disaster waiting to happen.

@PlanetJanette

Here we have a trans child who is not using single sex spaces etc or indeed doing anything that might be characterised as infringing on the rights of women and girls.

The definition of Women and Girls is itself a single sex space.

If we entertain even for one moment the suggestion that a male person might be a woman or a girl simply because of what is in his mind, we do harm to every single woman and girl on the planet by reducing their individual and varied experiences as people with female bodies and a wonderful variety of mind to a limited gendered stereotype of mind.

Yes but to the person who is trans that is outing them which could be very dangerous for them. It is heinous when it is done with malicious intent which is what you are insinuating.
Would it be ‘not lying to someone’ if you told a Christian that God doesn’t exist? No -as it’s respecting that person and their beliefs which is what should happen with this trans child.

forcibly outing a trans child is a heinous thing to do.

'Forcibly outing' in this context, means telling other people that you know that this person is lying about their sex.

So it is a 'heinous thing' to tell other people when you know someone else is lying?

Well, of course, @PlanetJanette, it depends what you mean by 'trans people', particularly with regard to this child.

If we take a trans person to be someone who has changed sex, the child is not a trans person; a fortiori not a trans child. So 'forcibly outing a trans child' is not at all applicable.

If we take the child to be a trans child in some other sense than this - he wants to change sex, dislikes his own sex, whatever - then 'forcibly outing' (whatever this might mean in such a case) might be wholly appropriate.

None of this denies the existence of the child in question, nor of anyone else, notice. It just denies a particular description.

The child may, indeed, just be making a mistake, one made by many soi-disant 'trans people': that of thinking it possible for a human to change sex. It would be wrong for others - teachers, parents, other children - to encourage him in this error; bad for him and his peers.

I wonder, @PlanetJanette, what you take 'trans people' and 'trans child' to mean? Do you think children can change sex?

Oh dear - desperation setting in eh?

In order to register a child's sex, that sex must be identified.

All the parents of girls in a girls' boarding school are entitled to know that their daughters will be sharing washing and sleeping facilities with other girls - they don't need names - just to know that the school are following the law.
A girl undressing in the swimming pool changing rooms is entitled to know that the child next to her is another girl. It's only when schools have lied about a child's sex that parents get involved in order to protect their children.

It's all part of the long standing social contract that we respect the rights of others - single sex facilities for girls when undressed being one of them. There are of course certain adults frantically trying to remove these rights which is why women and many men have had to mobilise to safeguard girls.

@PlanetJanette I must be winning this argument because the best you got are cheap digs irrelevant to the topic.

Oh, and four. I have a younger DD who shouldn't be subjected to strange boys or men in our house overnight. No way.

My DD is bisexual, but I still allow her female friends to spend the night, but not her male friends. One, boys are stronger. Two, males commit 99.9% of sexual assault. Three, my DD won't get pregnant from a girl.

I hope you're not embarking on a screen writing career because that invented dialogue is clunky AF.