Labour members back Starmers stance on self ID

They're still looking to lower the bar. And that's out of office, let alone in office.

Anyone familiar with the frog boiling analogy can spot what they're up to a mile off. Especially when you look at the new, trumped up "charge" against Duffield.

They'll bring in self-ID. It'll happen.

sex fudge? You joined the kink brigade?

Yes, it is!

Still a spoiled ballot for me; certainly when you consider that my MP, Kim Johnson ( Liverpool Riverside), has refused a meeting with her constituents on this issue, plus she has the Mermaids logo at the top of her twitter page.
I can't stand her.

Her constituency is highly ethnically diverse, and I'm looking forward, with interest, to see how her many muslim constituents respond to her avowed position on TWAW and what she has in mind for their single sex spaces.

Already, a girl's school in her constituency, which had employed a trans identified young male as a teacher ( who the girls were expected to call 'Miss') has received many parental complaints. That is no comment on this person as an individual - but there is little tolerance in the wider community for this practice.

Sorry? I can’t vote for Labour as things stand, despite being a Labour voter previously. That certainly does not mean I am voting Tory. You have a very simplistic view.

It’s thanks to women who said no enough times to self ID

Absolutely no thanks to all those who scoffed, said it didn’t matter or no one cared

I know who made anything happen

Even though it’s just wallpaper spin from Labour. At least they fear challenge more

The goalposts will keep shifting.

Labour policy appears to be self-ID in all but name.

That's not true though, is it?
Very few people here say they will vote Tory. Most people say they won't vote Labour, but that doesn't mean they're voting Tory.
I certainly won't be voting for Labour while they hold their position on gender, and the chances of me voting Tory are slim to none. Both things can be true.

I've not decided yet whether I'll be voting Labour again, but I'm taking note of how often supporters visiting this board treat the issue as a huge joke.
And I won't forget.

Exactly.

It’s pure spin and meaningless

He hasn’t changed Labour’s policy position on this, though.

He’s only changed the way Labour describes its policy position.

Anyway it seems like we've got the excuse we need: The fact that when Labour members voted to oppose self ID and the leadership adopted this into policy - exactly as people have been arguing ad infinitum on here they must - they didn't do it by a large enough majority! 😀

I’m not sure. I think they really think they can hector women

I don’t know what that article is meant to be other than more Labour PR

There is no change. Men can get GRC female certificates. Starmer wants to ‘take the public with him’

Presuming things is fun! 😆

Because many people explicitly say that while the current government is terrible, has decimated public services and living standards isn't it awful yada yada, they HAVE to vote for them because Labour "don't know what a woman is".

Of course there are others who are actively happy with the Tories. I didn't mean "everyone" literally.

Starmer is a spineless weathervane of a politician but at least he has discovered which way the wind is blowing on this one.

I've started to think the people who pop up on certain threads purely to hector women for their voting choices are often actually working for the other side of who they appear to be - so presumably EatMyHead is here to make Labour look bad.

Why are we fighting for the retention of a gatekeeping process which has no real meaning or utility?

The GRA was designed for transsexuals, but most transwomen now do not have genital surgery.

The GRA was designed for people in psychological torment, but now doctors are told that failing to affirm a patient's self-declared gender (by trying to counsel them) is transphobic.

The requirement to live in the acquired gender for a certain period was intended to test genuineness by being rigorous and even somewhat humiliating. But cross-dressing is now more acceptable, plus I fear that for some the humiliation may even be the point.

This is not a counsel of despair. I just don't think this is the part of the system where we need to apply pressure. Because our problems don't just relate to people with GRCs, but to anyone with the PC of gender reassignment, which is a much bigger group.

I never understand this sneering.
Why do you think anyone needs to make up a reason to vote however they want? Who is actually going to know what someone does in the election booth?

I've never voted Tory but if I wanted to I would, and no amount of hectoring from Labour activists would change that.

Its this. In real life, when I actually discuss it with people, they agree with me. Most people have not thought it through and don't realise what it means.

It’s a tentative step to reposition. Just as the Tories softly trial changes via pieces in the Daily Mail or Telegraph, Labour do similar with Guardian and Observer via pet journalists

I agree. You'd have thought, maybe, that Labour Party members would be a bit more engaged with the topic than Joe Public. But only marginally, it seems. That 62% supporting single-sex spaces is depressingly low. But there is still the overall tone that nothing too arduous must be put in the way of these heroes who want to be treated as women, so let's not bother with this fiddlesome 'two doctors' stuff.

Really, like a lot of Guardian pieces these days, it's a puff-piece for Starmer. He's an unlikely guy to lionise, that's for sure.

Oh no! Everyone's going to have to think up a new excuse to vote Tory.

Labour Women's Declaration statement on the article. :

Polling of UKLabour members shows support for policy shift against self-ID & in support of retention of medical process & single-sex exceptions.
It confirms our Declaration represents mainstream views of members.
We take issue with the wording of..

..the survey's question in relation to the members’ response to the party’s policy shift. This conflates two separate issues, ie the move away from self-ID, with the un-evidenced proposal that the number of doctors involved in the diagnosis is reduced from two to one...

..However, the overall response still makes clear that party members, along with UK voters, agree with the retention of the gatekeeping of a medical diagnosis in the Gender Recognition process & the effective application of the single-sex exceptions..

..It's now time for UKLabour to consolidate its policy shift and to welcome dialogue with the thousands of sex realist Labour voters who have signed our Declaration.
There are very many Labour politicians who know that sex is real but still don’t speak out because of the..

..years of abuse of sex realist women & lesbians in particular by sex denialists inside & outside of our party.
We call on our party colleagues to take heart from this survey, to cease fearing paper tigers & to speak out freely.
We are the majority, our time has come, join us.

Also check out the threads on Developments in Scottish and Welsh Labour on women's rights and the latest moves against Rosie too.

Wales:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4950670-dentons-playbook-again-in-use-welsh-labour-womens-conference

Scotland:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4950869-scottish-labour-womens-conference-motion-5-passed-womens-voices-as-a-sex-class-must-be-heard

This is ALL interconnected. The fight is only going to get more heated.