Duffield under investigation

(I actually posted that para above first by mistake on a thread about Horses vs runners. Probably a seque they did not expect to go with a derail on horse shit but potentially apropos)

Love the sentence; 'Duffield is no more an anti-semite than Izzard is a woman' in the article by Jo Bartosch.

But the truth- the actual truth matters not a jot to this utterly shameful Labour Party or the TRAs.

So given a choice between Rosie Duffield and Eddie Izzard, Labour will choose Eddie? Have they lost their senses, or their cojones?

All this destroying the careers of women (and some men) reminds me of McCarthyism

I reckon that is what they are counting on Arthur.

sleb, innit.

Still highly relevant because Izzard seems to be considered a high value candidate

I really don't get it, and I think they're making a mistake.

Without a script he just sounds nuts.

dothedoo · Yesterday 10:48

You should probably ask why a man who wants to remain anonymous has put that in a scandal sheet online and if he's representative of the constituency as a whole. My cousin is and she likes her.

Also, I meant to say, fromorbit, thank you, that was genuinely interesting history that I know nothing about.

I'd be interested to hear more about the Lebensborn programme and more feminist/women's history of the period.

Do you really think the investigation is about Anti-Semitism? And if so do you really think that Rosie is Labour's worst offender? Despite what the British Jewish community are saying in her defence?

Of course not. But the way that internal investigations work mean that it has to be investigated, which means it has to be discussed.

We spend a lot of time countering false narratives on here. It is time consuming, it is diversionary, it is infuriating.

But that DARVO is part of the way that this ideology is pushed. Yes, it's gish-galloping. But without countering the false assertions, they continue to be used without pushback.

With any luck some of the arguments made on here may be used usefully elsewhere, too.

We’re in an era of censorship on biological reality.

Political advocates of gender ideology are powerful and it looks like they’ll keep going until no voices based on reality are heard

It’s real indoctrination time, like that apology which sounded like a re education camp statement from the Labour councillor

Anything will be used to take our careers. See also Baroness Falkner, luckily saved - will someone do the same for Duffield in Labour as Badenoch did?

My objection is that the last couple of pages seem to have been all about Izzard, and stuff about the holocaust.

It is as if people want to divert attention from the way Rosie is being treated. It is the Labour Party who have put her under investigation. It is the Labour Party who may think they will gain from being unable to stand.

There are lots of really awful things that happened to women in Nazi Germany, even so-called Aryan women. Very little is ever said about the Lebensborn programme, perhaps because some of the children born as part of the programme are still alive, albeit in their 80s.

I don't think that the tweet and the investigation are that intertwined. They were out to get Rosie, and would have pounced on the first slip up. It was becoming increasingly difficult to get her for her GC views. Labour is only too aware that their thinking is at odds with the general public. So why not anti-Semitism. Surely liking a retweet of debatable meaning is just as bad as Livingstone referring to Hamas and Hezbollah as friends?

Do you really think the investigation is about Anti-Semitism? And if so do you really think that Rosie is Labour's worst offender? Despite what the British Jewish community are saying in her defence?

I think it is highly unfair that Rosie has had this investigation hanging over her head for so long without resolution. I also consider this to be a ploy to support her not being on the list of candidates.

Still highly relevant because Izzard seems to be considered a high value candidate considering they have shopped Izzard around to find Izzard a candidacy. Hence, there really is an obvious power imbalance between Izzard and Rosie within the Labour Party.

Therefore there seems to be disproportionality in the way she is treated vs Izzard. This has been discussed on this thread in view of Izzard's appropriation in Izzard's tweet compared to Rosie liking Grahams factual statement in return. Again, it is all intertwined. Rosie seems to lack support in light of Izzard seeming to be such high value to the current Labour Party senior team.

Discussing the complaint, spurious and unfair as it is, is essential.

It may seem tedious, but it's not avoidable. It's not like Rosie Duffield can just huff that it's a witch hunt and refuse to participate, is it?

I imagine she'll need to go through the process.

Perhaps what is ALSO needed is for Labour members/LWD to ask for an investigation into the complaint and targeting of Rosie.

Pah!! It's about as self serving as the "Trans day of rememberence" where we remember all the trans people who haven't been killed that year. As always, Fred Seargent has a good take on it https://twitter.com/FredSargeant/status/1729102507752743333

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4951566-gender-criticals-how-are-you-going-to-vote-in-the-election

Here is a brand new thread discussing political parties as a whole. Perhaps this thread can be left to discuss Rosie and the investigation that Rosie faces.

Maybe look at the OP. What we have been discussing is relevant to cake's OP. If you want to broaden the scope of this to general Labour Party issues, then it is perhaps you who need to start your own thread.

We have tried to point out to you that Rosie's investigation and Izzard's tweet are directly intertwined. Yes, of course Rosie was targeted. However, her action has also been misrepresented. The entire investigation is about that misrepresentation that we are indeed discussing. It doesn't mean that we also cannot discuss how to help her directly. Both things are possible and are likely.

Not wanting to difficult, but highlighting where Labour could do better?

um.

• stop believing in alternative reality

• stop being fundamentally misogynist, racist, ableist, ageist and homophobic while blindly identifying as the evidence of this doesn't exist while looking straight at it (that's a good one. Think that'll work on global warming? Poverty? Doesn't happen, we can't see it. Don't fact shame us.)
• Stop their totalitarian, colonialist principles that underpin their entire attitude towards politics and people while at the same time lecturing endlessly on their superiority, purity and how terrible colonialism is when it's someone else doing it in another time and place

I could go on. But I think that in itself renders them fundamentally fucked. They are unsalvageable. As with a bad school, all that really works is to get rid of everyone, bin everything and start again.

Labour is unsalvageable. And the above makes them far more dangerous than the tired, corrupt, useless, purposeless mess behind the blue rosettes. And Labour are fractionally saner than the SNP, Greens and Lib Dems.

So as a voter, I'm stuck with the useless muppets.

I have been following this board for a long time. Almost every discussion of the Labour Party and its treatment of women is closed down or diverted.

Assuming everyone wants the next Government to be an effective one, we should be discussing their policies and their weaknesses. We should be highlighting where they could do better.

This treatment of Rosie is shocking. It is not that complex.

If we assume that it is not so much about liking a tweet, but about the fact the Party seem to want to prevent Rosie from standing, then we need to talk about the LP and Rosie, not bloody Izzard.

@Needmoresleep

We a bunch of women on a forum talking about a subject that is complex. We are allowed to follow lines of enquiry or interest, and I don't particularly appreciate being told that I should go away and do that elsewhere nor that I'm centering men.

Whether or not what Izzard said has any reasonable factual basis IS relevant to the investigation of Rosie. I'm as GC as you like but if Izzard's claim was factual then I wouldn't be impressed with her behaviour towards his tweet as an MP, either (although lord knows plenty of MPs, especially men, especially men in the conservative party have done far worse and nobody's blinked an eye)

It also came about after years of the likes of Wes Streeting keeping lists of women who Didn't ipe Down. We've documented this over the years and we are allowed to now discuss how the Labour Party threw women and girls under the bus, and what they are supporting.

Men who say they are women and who adjust their trouser contents whilst waiting in a queue to access women's facilities, and the leadership completely supporting this behaviour whilst investigating Rosie is part of the same issue.

Men who say they are women do seem to be forgiven for almost anything whilst actual women cannot even voice biological reality without being dropped and investigated. It's the same issue.

Yes, this is the heart of the matter.

Oh no. I didn’t mean you were beside the point.

I meant that janette’s insistence of^ corralling us into discussing the historical evidence^ is purely distraction and,^ therefore, beside the point.^

You are obviously right to challenge the evidence-light historical claims that janette is determined to state as fact. But our activist friends are determined to force us to focus on the not really relevant to the original point stuff.

There is simply no sensible defence to Izzard’s appropriation of the holocaust to position himself as a victim. Which is why his supporters are so utterly determined to talk about how the nazis viewed and treated trans people (conveniently ignoring that 21st century trans didn’t exist as a concept in the early 20th century).

I agree with all of this.

It also came about after years of the likes of Wes Streeting keeping lists of women who Didn't ipe Down. We've documented this over the years and we are allowed to now discuss how the Labour Party threw women and girls under the bus, and what they are supporting.

Men who say they are women and who adjust their trouser contents whilst waiting in a queue to access women's facilities, and the leadership completely supporting this behaviour whilst investigating Rosie is part of the same issue.

Men who say they are women do seem to be forgiven for almost anything whilst actual women cannot even voice biological reality without being dropped and investigated. It's the same issue.