A side thought ...

I think, OP, that when faced with the mother and her claims, my first question would not have been “why can’t he just be gay?”It would have been “is he using women’s spaces?”

There’s the line.

Is he effectively trying to be a super feminine male and expressing himself in what he feels to be feminine ways, avoiding using women’s spaces out of respect, but simply changing what he calls himself because he has bought into gender ideology?

Or is he (as seems more likely to me) parroting a plausible excuse so he can override boundaries and invade women’s spaces?

My suspicion would be that it’s the latter. I agree with Tinsel in that I think he’s telling his mum something she wants to hear, rather than the truth.

Teenagers and young people always look for an identity and a group to join - whether it's through sport or music or something else. I think boys today are being offered this new type of group 'transwoman' via the internet and of course it's the quiet, gentle ones who don't feel they easily fit in who are most likely to fall prey. But unlike most other groups, this is toxic. I'm sure many start out being lovely and just a bit naive but once in this group they have to engage in some incredibly problematic behaviour to fit in and their attitudes will change.

All that.

So much wilful delusion involved in assuming such rubbish about both sexes.

I'm lucky to know many wonderful men - maybe this helps being a feminist because to me it's very apparent how possible it is to be a good man.

Which reveals that it's a choice to rape or abuse or mimic or badly treat women.

Funny how a belief that feelings are innate and unchangeable apparently goes hand in hand with a belief that the material world is entirely changeable and choosable.

That typo was the first thing I noticed, was it an unconsciously deliberate I wonder?

@LindorDoubleChoc I hope you haven’t left! I thought your post was fascinating and have been pondering it (rather than sleeping…) during the night because it does raise a very important point — which to me underscores some of the (to me baffling) confusion amongst young people. I know a young man who I fear is falling prey to gender confusion — sounds very similar to the young man you describe. Despite having lovely male friends and role models of men who are kind, sensitive, etc, he seeks friendships primarily with women as a reaction to “laddish” culture. He has not yet said he “identifies” as a woman but has given some suggestions he might do so — which to me would be preposterous because he is very “manly” in all the best possible ways. I happen to really like men — perhaps because I have been lucky in my father, brothers, husband and many male friends from university) — so am baffled as to why this young man seems to feel a need to identify with women rather than with “good” men.
sorry — I think I am waffling and probably not making sense. But I just wanted to say,OP, you have highlighted an interesting aspect of this very odd new world you g people are creating.

Bouffe I’m so sorry (and angry) to hear that happened to your family member and her friends. I am 100% opposed to men forcing their presence into lesbian society and it disgusts me that our wider society is allowing this to happen. It’s awful that she is having to arrange social events in secret and that TRAs feel entitled to disrupt, threaten and criticise her for doing so.

I promise you that the women on FWR are as angry and want to stop it happening as you are. Solidarity with your family member.

I can understand why some young people want to opt out of the gender roles they feel expected to conform to.

I can understand why pretty much anybody would want to opt out of the gender roles they are expected to conform to. Gender roles are shit.

But the way to do that is by refusing to take part in - and fighting against - the roles and expectations and sterotypes (as feminists have been doing for centuries). Not by trying to opt into another sex (or even gender).

Any men who wants to use a word lesbian for himself is toxic.

If the friend's son isn't comfortable being a man because he doesn't like the masculine stereotypes, I would expect him to declare himself as nonbinary.

I am aghast at pp saying there are few non-toxic role models. Pretty much all the men I know are excellent role models.

Your husbands?

Another good man who is actively fighting toxic masculinity, child rape, porn (he took on Porn Hub and won some rule changes) and sex trafficking is the New York Times journalist Nicholas Kristoff. He's an excellent male role model who uses his media platform and writing gift to fight the worst of male violence against women.

OP, your friend's son needs better male role models.

I've wondered if with, apparently, more younger, straight men thinking they can identify as women if there's a social contagion angle to Malaga airport.

I agree with pp, thinking 'woman' can be worn like an outfit is pretty toxic. Thinking they can be lesbians is even worse.

And btw women, ofck, and feminists to boot don't hate men

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4944649-we-dont-hate-men-science-sez

Probably porn, blaming toxic masculinity to make it palatable to his mum.

My point is, saying that he doesn't want to 'be a man' because it's associated with toxicity is ignoring all the wonderful men now and throughout history who were gender non-conforming. It's an excuse to trample right on over those lesbian boundaries and lack of consent.

Why, what's he done? He's not all macho and works against domestic violence.

Look, no-one's going to be a nice person all the time. No women are either. But there are plenty of basically decent men. Lots of men who've done wonderful things and show there are many different ways to be a good man.

Marcus Rashford! Bloody hell, how can I forget him..... or does playing football - even if you're also literally helping starving children - disqualify you from the 'non toxic male role-model' category?

"However, as his transition has evolved over the years, it's clear he has a sexist and sexually objectifying view of women. His personality has also warped and now his sensitivity has turned to defensive lashing out on perceived insults, his kindness has disappeared into self-absorption and his empathy is only one-sided "poor me." "

"It's being the very worst type of toxic man to ignore female boundaries, to expect women to be your support humans without their consent and then not even to have the grace to be honest about it."

All this is inevitable when you trying to be something you are not.

I think the OP has succumbed to the over generous flattery of her fellow women. It is manipulation.

Not so sure about Patrick Stewart.

This, and they are very young. Teenage boys are young and can be vulnerable just like teen girls who get sucked into this stuff.

The fact that adults are telling them this stuff is real mens they believe it. As much as many teens think they are great counter-cultural critical thinkers, the opposite is usually the case. They are overly trusting and don't question enough, their critical faculties aren't fully developed and in many cases they've not had the development they should have in their education..

Even the teens who are being being drawn into AGP behaviour are in need of real guidance, rather than idiots telling them that yeah, they really are hot lesbians.

"Nice guy" is an MRA cliche for a reason.

Sorry but I think you're letting your affection for this person get in the way, he really shouldn't be bothering lesbians, or thinking he can just become a woman.
Why doesn't he just be a non-toxic male ? I agree there's not many role models out there, but he could figure it out.

It's being the very worst type of toxic man to ignore female boundaries, to expect women to be your support humans without their consent and then not even to have the grace to be honest about it.

He can fuck off with his 'trans-lesbian' homophobic bullshit.

And also he can fuck off with the 'there are no non-toxic male role models'. Yes there are, there are literally bloody LOADS of decent men. If he hasn't encountered any, he really hasn't tried very hard at all (too busy searching the internet I expect).

Here are a few just off the top of my head: Patrick Stewart, James Dreyfus, Lin Manuel Miranda, politics aside (which I know is divisive) Barack Obama treats women with respect and isn't all macho, Ben Cooper KC (should have put him first obvs), Ronan Farrow, Harry Millar, ....my Dad, my next-door neighbour, so very many decent men.

All the men who manage to NOT trample women's boundaries by NOT using women's spaces. I.e. the majority.

I assume it's due to the porn and social sites he visits. Be very skeptical, OP.

YY, I imagine most of these men are getting social reinforcement via Reddit, discord groups, TRA Twitter etc. And those spaces are highly misogynistic. It's like hanging out in the manosphere.

Because that's what jumped out at me: the OP apparently a little amused at the idea of this young man solving his issues by becoming one of the men who are calling my niece a hateful bigot and worse on social media and planning to prevent her event happening if they're not included.

Then criticise the OP, not other posters who know full well that it is homophobic and what happens with lesbians being harassed by males, and have discussed this many times before on the board, but didn't get the chance to say on this thread before you jumped on them to shame them for not mentioning it in their one or two posts on the thread.

I don't think the OP is amused, she's just not considered it in this way before, and she knows this man so she's making allowances for him, to her he's not as terrible as other TRAs so maybe it's less harmful. It's misguided, yes, as most people have said. I hope your niece has support from friends. These men are awful. Can she contact LGBA?