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Original poster

Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 3

993 replies

ickky · 11/10/2023 10:41

Started on 2nd October at Watford Employment Tribunal (Radius House, 51 Clarendon Rd, Watford WD17 1HP 01923 281750)

You may attend in person or remote viewing has been quite limited but you can request log in details from

Email [email protected]

Header should read

URGENT CURRENT CASE - Public Access Request - J Phoenix - The Open University - 3322700/2021

Ask for access link and pin and please give your name and address in the email as they check when you connect to the tribunal.

Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R

OU Departments & Networks:

HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
IF - Prof Ian Fribbance Dean of FASS
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

Thread 2
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 2 | Mumsnet

Abbreviations JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C) OU - The Open University, Respondent (R) J - Regional Employment Judge Young P - Panel or panel memb...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
Original poster
ickky · 11/10/2023 15:54

Thanks for the links @chilling19 and @GCITC

OP posts:
GCITC · 11/10/2023 15:54

This reddit thread is rather interesting to read.

www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/o7ak92/open_university_and_the_gender_critical_research/

ChickChickaBumBum · 11/10/2023 15:52

VWdieselnightmare · 11/10/2023 15:50

One starts to wonder whether academics should really be managing. Although thinking back to all the places I've worked and been badly managed, perhaps it doesn't make much difference.

Show quote history

Academics are generally terrible managers. They don't get training and are expected to handle all kinds of things (admin, finance, even HR) on top of running their research groups. And most of them resent this extra workload, which lead them to ignoring it until they can't anymore.

VWdieselnightmare · 11/10/2023 15:50

Mmmnotsure · 11/10/2023 15:43

In addition to the insight into the OU practices, this is providing an interesting spotlight on the calibre of their academic staff.

One starts to wonder whether academics should really be managing. Although thinking back to all the places I've worked and been badly managed, perhaps it doesn't make much difference.

CriticalCondition · 11/10/2023 15:50

MW, We spent a lot of time reaching out to trans and nb people and GC people. It was trying to do the right thing by both sides.

Original poster
ickky · 11/10/2023 15:49

Has anyone read the open letter?

OP posts:
chilling19 · 11/10/2023 15:49

Prof - trying to do the right thing by both sides

Err - what about checking the policy?

chilling19 · 11/10/2023 15:47

Oh, so we are going with some one rather than someones?

Ben <turns over the page and points out threat of boycott and non-collaboration>

Prof - silence, then struggles.

<Ben moves on with his carefully thought out plan>

Original poster
ickky · 11/10/2023 15:47

😂

OP posts:
Melissamelisante · 11/10/2023 15:47

Amnesia incoming

Chrysanthemum5 · 11/10/2023 15:47

Does this witness think just saying she doesn't know will get her out of answering? If so then she's in for a shock

CriticalCondition · 11/10/2023 15:47

BC, was it not obvious at the time that the wells letter was harassment and discrimination and therefore not covered by FOS?
MW, long pause, no, umm, I don't know...

Chrysanthemum5 · 11/10/2023 15:46

Why hadn't she read the Wells letter in advance of today? She doesn't seem to know what is going on

Melissamelisante · 11/10/2023 15:45

A good guest list for any party.

Original poster
ickky · 11/10/2023 15:45

Melissamelisante · 11/10/2023 15:43

Akua Reindorf now appears as a guest.

Maya is in there too. 😀

OP posts:
Original poster
ickky · 11/10/2023 15:44

@AutumnCrow I think he must have, how does he do it?

OP posts:
Melissamelisante · 11/10/2023 15:43

Akua Reindorf now appears as a guest.

Mmmnotsure · 11/10/2023 15:43

In addition to the insight into the OU practices, this is providing an interesting spotlight on the calibre of their academic staff.

AutumnCrow · 11/10/2023 15:43

I suspect Ben Cooper has something akin to eidetic memory.

chilling19 · 11/10/2023 15:42

Sisterpita · 11/10/2023 15:37

Ah so BC is trying to show the OU did not take action against the signatories to the open letter even though they were being discriminatory and so had stepped over the “line”. This is the point where the OU should have taken action as per its policies and didn’t.

Edited

Yes and the 'line' in this case is their own policy.

chilling19 · 11/10/2023 15:41

I really wouldn't want to be Prof Wilson

GCITC · 11/10/2023 15:41

Melissamelisante · 11/10/2023 15:41

How he remains sounding so patient is beyond me.

I don't think he's human.

Mmmnotsure · 11/10/2023 15:41

MW: if you're talking about the protesting, yes there are other ways of doing it.

BC: This isn't just saying we object to GC beliefs cos harmful to t. We want you to discrim and will engage in all these way to make you do what we ask.