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Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 3

993 replies

ickky · 11/10/2023 10:41

Started on 2nd October at Watford Employment Tribunal (Radius House, 51 Clarendon Rd, Watford WD17 1HP 01923 281750)

You may attend in person or remote viewing has been quite limited but you can request log in details from

Email [email protected]

Header should read

URGENT CURRENT CASE - Public Access Request - J Phoenix - The Open University - 3322700/2021

Ask for access link and pin and please give your name and address in the email as they check when you connect to the tribunal.

Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R

OU Departments & Networks:

HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
IF - Prof Ian Fribbance Dean of FASS
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

Thread 2
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 2 | Mumsnet

Abbreviations JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C) OU - The Open University, Respondent (R) J - Regional Employment Judge Young P - Panel or panel memb...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
AutumnCrow · 11/10/2023 17:12

GCITC · 11/10/2023 17:08

Downes spearheaded the campaign against the GCRN I believe. Sending emails asking people to sign, and making complaints about the posldcast etc.

Drake had a hand in the outcomes of complaints I think.

Being naive here, why is Downes on the OU witness list? Do Dave Hall and Tim Blackman think that these witnesses are going to explain it all away?

GCITC · 11/10/2023 17:08

Downes spearheaded the campaign against the GCRN I believe. Sending emails asking people to sign, and making complaints about the posldcast etc.

Drake had a hand in the outcomes of complaints I think.

MrsDoylesCake · 11/10/2023 17:03

I’m muddling Downes and Drake. One of them was referred to quite a lot on Monday right?

GCITC · 11/10/2023 16:51

Oh God, my brain has melted.

I don't know how barristers do this all the time

MTCoffeePot · 11/10/2023 16:50

Tribunal Tweets mentions laughter at a couple of stages. does anyone know what that was about? Is it just that the questioning is taking longer than expected?

Chrysanthemum5 · 11/10/2023 16:47

Looking forward to Downes tomorrow!

CriticalCondition · 11/10/2023 16:45

No, it's Downes, not Drake tomorrow.

CriticalCondition · 11/10/2023 16:44

ickky · 11/10/2023 16:42

I think I heard next Wednesday for Dr Drake

Show quote history

My sound only goes up to 11!

GCITC · 11/10/2023 16:44

Ah OK, so Molloy, Westmarland and Drake tomorrow.

Think we've worked it out together!

CriticalCondition · 11/10/2023 16:43

Sorry, yes, Westmarland. There was a lot of back and forth.

Original poster
ickky · 11/10/2023 16:42

CriticalCondition · 11/10/2023 16:41

JM mentioned Drake (was very faint) but not in connection with any particular day and it sounded like she is not available yet. BC estimates 3 hours with her, the most of the remaining witnesses.

I think I heard next Wednesday for Dr Drake

OP posts:
CriticalCondition · 11/10/2023 16:41

JM mentioned Drake (was very faint) but not in connection with any particular day and it sounded like she is not available yet. BC estimates 3 hours with her, the most of the remaining witnesses.

LarkLane · 11/10/2023 16:39

Westmarland?

GCITC · 11/10/2023 16:37

CriticalCondition · 11/10/2023 16:35

Tomorrow seems to be Weston, Downes and Molloy, in no particular order. One of themmay run on to Friday.

I can't find a Weston on the witness list.

OP posts:
CriticalCondition · 11/10/2023 16:35

Tomorrow seems to be Weston, Downes and Molloy, in no particular order. One of themmay run on to Friday.

pronounsbundlebundle · 11/10/2023 16:34

I agree I think BC has demonstrated discrimination, but understand I'm biased so may be wrong. It's all about how unbalanced it is. The way they treated the genderists was totally different to the way they treated gender critical people or indeed anyone else (and not according to policy). An open letter such as that against atheists (which is the closest example I can think of) would not have been acceptable.

I am feeling slightly sorry for the OU because I suspect they did at least try a tiny bit to be more even handed than a lot of other universities (see the VC of Oxford's recent comments for a demonstration of even worse bias) but at the end of the day 'I only burnt the witch a tiny bit' isn't that good of a defence.

Sisterpita · 11/10/2023 16:34

I think the OU were faced with an extraordinary response that they hadn’t expected. They were aware of the toxicity of the debate and probably wanted to minimise reputational damage by not riling GI/TRA students & staff. They were essentially fire fighting and so focused on quieting the loudest voices. In doing so they missed their duty of care to Jo, didn’t realise it was harassment and discrimination and by the time they did it was too late.

Even more than GCC and CGD I think employers will be able to see how this could happen in their organisation. The Civil Service, NHS, other public sector organisations and Universities will recognise the OUs ways of working and how this could happen to them.

Chrysanthemum5 · 11/10/2023 16:33

I couldn't hear JM's questions she really needs to speak up. Did anyone catch them

GCITC · 11/10/2023 16:33

Drake, Downes and I think Molloy, but the last one could be wrong

Original poster
ickky · 11/10/2023 16:32

10am Start tomorrow.

OP posts:
Original poster
ickky · 11/10/2023 16:31

Did anyone catch who is on tomorrow?

OP posts:
HarpQuartet · 11/10/2023 16:27

I'm going to email Watford ET to let them know I can't attend again until next Wednesday at the soonest (because of work) and that they can offer my 'spot' to someone else, until then or for the rest of the tribunal. Hope they can be flexible like that. It's a real shame that people are interested but haven't been given the opportunity to attend.

LarkLane · 11/10/2023 16:23

Thank you so much everyone for the links and updates.

Original poster
ickky · 11/10/2023 16:22

I think on paper it's clear that they did treat her differently and there was clear discrimination, but as with you, I am biased.

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