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Original poster

Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 3

993 replies

ickky · 11/10/2023 10:41

Started on 2nd October at Watford Employment Tribunal (Radius House, 51 Clarendon Rd, Watford WD17 1HP 01923 281750)

You may attend in person or remote viewing has been quite limited but you can request log in details from

Email [email protected]

Header should read

URGENT CURRENT CASE - Public Access Request - J Phoenix - The Open University - 3322700/2021

Ask for access link and pin and please give your name and address in the email as they check when you connect to the tribunal.

Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R

OU Departments & Networks:

HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
IF - Prof Ian Fribbance Dean of FASS
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

Thread 2
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 2 | Mumsnet

Abbreviations JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C) OU - The Open University, Respondent (R) J - Regional Employment Judge Young P - Panel or panel memb...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
MyLadyDisdainlsYetLiving · 12/10/2023 14:40

Interesting in the discussion on the mystery grievances - "Mr Cooper doesn't want them", so he's not depending on them for any part of his argument to support Jo's claim?

CriticalCondition · 12/10/2023 14:39

JM - 'BC is ready for Dr Downes'
Oh yes.

chilling19 · 12/10/2023 14:39

Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21

GCITC · 12/10/2023 14:39

So glad the cup has gone. It was very distracting.

chilling19 · 12/10/2023 14:38

In fact I vote for 'we haven't really thought it through' to apply to all of the appalling organisations that have allowed these tribunals to go ahead so far.

Original poster
ickky · 12/10/2023 14:38

In the most important news THE CUP HAS GONE.

OP posts:
GCITC · 12/10/2023 14:37

Dr Downes. This should be interesting.

Original poster
ickky · 12/10/2023 14:37

DD - Dr Downes to start

OP posts:
chilling19 · 12/10/2023 14:37

JM - 'haven't really thought it through yet'. Ya think?

Mmmnotsure · 12/10/2023 14:36

J: Tribunal needs to know what was in the grievance and whether it overlaps with JPs.

JM: Might be difficult to get it redacted in time.

[It seems that one of the grievances was appealed.]

JM and BC haven't seen the other grievances. JM doesn't know what's in it.

chilling19 · 12/10/2023 14:36

Oh dearie me

Mmmnotsure · 12/10/2023 14:34

Judge wants to know c other grievance and the outcome. Also the appeal.

MrsDoylesCake · 12/10/2023 14:33

Typical. I have to head out to do the school run in a few minutes

LipbalmOrKnickers · 12/10/2023 14:32

In again now.

chilling19 · 12/10/2023 14:32

Ok we are back

Original poster
ickky · 12/10/2023 14:28

She has an inscrutable face, not that I can see her very well sitting next to BC.

OP posts:
chilling19 · 12/10/2023 14:26

Zeugma · 12/10/2023 14:24

I can barely begin to imagine how Jo must feel listening to the epic clusterfuck that’s unfolding here. That she was being put through such mental and emotional torture by these people. This was their level of competence??

I hope Jo is feeling vindicated.

Zeugma · 12/10/2023 14:24

I can barely begin to imagine how Jo must feel listening to the epic clusterfuck that’s unfolding here. That she was being put through such mental and emotional torture by these people. This was their level of competence??

LarkLane · 12/10/2023 14:21

Alternatively, big Steph in a bobble hat might have given them advice. (Joke)

LarkLane · 12/10/2023 14:18

Can the OU dodge responsibility by blaming it all on their “legal advice”?

Ignorance of the Law is no mistake - age old legal tenet

No. They could try and mitigate things by claiming they followed it in good faith but not totally duck out of it.
Usually, if you've had duff advice and suffered a loss, that's when you claim against your duff advisors, who should have the appropriate liability insurance.
Sorry cross posting with pp.

ArabellaScott · 12/10/2023 14:18

Froodwithatowel · 12/10/2023 14:14

Not to mention that Stonewall shrugged and said it was their fault for listening to bad advice and acting on it, and left them to carry the can.

Show quote history

Stonewall identify as Good People on the Right Side of History.

I know there are endless jokes to be made about the 'identiying as' phrase, but this is really what it comes down to.

Who has the power. Who is permitted to 'identify' as they wish and who is able to 'identify' others.

Froodwithatowel · 12/10/2023 14:14

Chrysanthemum5 · 12/10/2023 14:12

Yes @RoyalCorgi and you'd think after the poor state of stonewall advice was revealed other organisations would have decided to steer clear

Not to mention that Stonewall shrugged and said it was their fault for listening to bad advice and acting on it, and left them to carry the can.

HellonHeels · 12/10/2023 14:13

pronounsbundlebundle · 12/10/2023 12:01

If I was Westminster(?) Uni I might be having a long hard look at whether she's the right person for her job there..... or at the very least rewriting her contract to specify that reading contentious grievances is part of the job..... (if not in there already).

I worked at that university. It was pronouns all over, progress pride flag flying outside, absolute silence during disability awareness month.

Chrysanthemum5 · 12/10/2023 14:12

Yes @RoyalCorgi and you'd think after the poor state of stonewall advice was revealed other organisations would have decided to steer clear

RoyalCorgi · 12/10/2023 14:11

MavisMcMinty · 12/10/2023 14:08

Oh absolutely all the “legal advice” has come from Stonewall!

Can the OU dodge responsibility by blaming it all on their “legal advice”?

Wasn't that what Garden Court Chambers did in Allison Bailey's case?