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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

MPs who believe ‘women have a penis’ will be named and shamed ahead of general election

495 replies

fromorbit · 24/09/2023 09:53

Brilliant plan sure plenty of Mumsnetters will be up for being part of the volunteer army asking questions:

An “army” of volunteers in an apolitical new grassroots campaign is gearing up to meet all MPs and parliamentary candidates at hustings events and on their doorsteps to ask each one the question: “What is a woman?”

Their answers will be video recorded and uploaded individually to a website which is being launched in the coming months.

It will allow voters to find out instantly whether their next MP thinks women must be born female and that binary biological sex cannot be changed, or whether they believe that male-born transgender women are women too.

Sharron Davies MBE, the former Olympic swimmer and feminist campaigner who has been appointed as the campaign’s first ambassador, said it would let voters “know if their MP will stand up for women”.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/23/mps-believe-women-penis-named-trans-election-sharron-davies/

We also need a women's issues hustings in every constituency in the election run by people who know what women are. Women Won't Wheesht (WWW) have already run the prototype in Rutherglen [the hustings was reinstated after an attempt to cancel it after they realised banning women's meetings is in fact illegal.]
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4899435-womens-group-hustings-for-rutherglen-hamilton-west-byelection-cancelled

MPs who believe ‘women have a penis’ will be named and shamed ahead of general election

A new website will allow voters to instantly find out whether their MP thinks women must be born female

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/23/mps-believe-women-penis-named-trans-election-sharron-davies

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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AdamRyan · 25/09/2023 19:39

Baldieheid · 25/09/2023 18:39

Seriously, if Adam Ryan and whoever else wants to avoid this website, off you trot. Don't look back. Begone. Go forth and do whatever it is you want to instead.

You, however, don't get to tell anyone else what the should or should not read, listen to, or watch.

Who do you think you are?

I've posted on here for about 15 years and have no intention of "trotting off" anywhere just because FWR has become more about trans issues and less about feminism. Who do you think you are? The board police?

I'm not telling anyone what to do. I'm saying this "name and shame" movement doesn't stand up to any form of scrutiny.

AdamRyan · 25/09/2023 19:35

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 25/09/2023 18:05

You have quoted me, written multiple paragraphs, and yet seem to have gone to ZERO effort to read what I said.

I say that, because your post ends with yet another remark about whether the website is "politically neutral". Let me say this in small words for those rendered illiterate by political tribalism:

I Don't Care.

I do, however, feel a great amount of irritation with your lecture about how I'm a 'minority', as if that should make me think "oh, better give up my principles then".

I'm quite aware that I can't read minds, thank you, and I did not need to be told so. Do make sure to take your attitude with you when you go canvassing for whatever party you support. I believe in you and your ability to drop its constituency vote share.

You are in a minority in voting directly for an MP closely aligned to your views. Most voters don't bother is what i meant. Not you are in a minority politically. I have no idea what your political views are.

Anyway clearly touched a nerveGrin hadn't realised FWR was so far gone that using a male name and posting a different opinion would cause so much consternation.

AdamRyan · 25/09/2023 19:31

Fukuraptor · 25/09/2023 18:22

Is it like a double negative, use two traditionally masculine names in your username and we should know you are female? 🤔

I've used male names on here for years with no issue until recently
I am currently named after a character in one of my favourite books

CyberCritical · 25/09/2023 19:30

@AdamRyan I absolutely do care if my MP thinks that women can have a penis, because if they believe that then they also believe that Trans Women should be allowed in women's sport, and womens refuges, and women's rape crisis therapy, and women's prisons, and women's psychiatric facilities, and women's open plan changing rooms, and women's awards and women's scholarship programmes.......

To be explicitly and completely clear. Males (the traditional meaning defined by having a Y chromosome and the capacity to produce sperm), are not and can never become Female and should not be allowed to gain access to Female categories and spaces.

I want an MP who understands that to allow Males to take Female places is to discriminate against the sex category Female.

I also fucking hate how I have to write this kind of thing now to avoid the use of the word Woman, because it has been usurped and given new meaning.

Baldieheid · 25/09/2023 19:14

Why wouldn't you want to know what potential MPs actually believe?

Who, I wonder, would like that fudged, disguised, hidden?

Hmmmmmmm?

ArabeIIaScott · 25/09/2023 19:11

AdamRyan · 25/09/2023 17:41

Who is arguing that arabella? Because if that's aimed at me you are completely missing my point

Am I? What was your point? That conservatives are hatching a nefarious plot to let people know what MPs think on a matter that many people care about?

BloodyHellKen · 25/09/2023 19:05

This thread is a timely reminder of why I moved away from left wing politics. Nothing is ever pure enough 🙄😂

As @NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision said up thread I also don't care where the information comes from. If a politician believes something that I believe to be an utter crock of bullshit I want to know and I will use that information to form an opinion on that person and most likely the party they represent.

We aren't talking about opinion pieces here which always come with political baggage, we are talking about yes/no beliefs. Does someone believe something yes or no.

It doesn't matter who reports it because the answer yes they believe a woman can have a penis will be the same whether it is printed in the Daily Mail or the Guardian.

BloodyHellKen · 25/09/2023 18:56

AdamRyan · 25/09/2023 11:38

From what I can see so far it seems to be coming out of the pro Free Speech movement
This really concerns me too.
We already have free speech in this country, subject to defamation laws and laws around inciting hatred. I am very wary of "free speech" movements as to me they appear more often than not to be right wing people wanting to erode protection to the vulnerable. The "health and safety gone mad", anti "woke agenda" people. They support people like Jeremy Clarkson, Nigel Farage, Russell Brand.

I think women should be very careful with this one.

OMG I assume you are joking when you lump Jeremy Clarkson, Nigel Farage and Russell Brand together 😂

EasternStandard · 25/09/2023 18:51

ChristinaXYZ · 25/09/2023 18:48

Maps is good!

Many media outlets will report or quote MPs over what is recorded. They love a 'gotcha'. It would be great of local news etc can just quickly find out how many candidates in their area would have passed a biology O level.

Brilliant I agree a map is a great idea

Agree with @Baldieheid too re pp

ChristinaXYZ · 25/09/2023 18:48

ResisterRex · 25/09/2023 18:11

Well it's certainly touched a nerve. I hope the website comes with a map. In fact, lots of maps. Maps for yes, no, didn't give clear answer. And then by those categories for all the main parties.

Maps is good!

Many media outlets will report or quote MPs over what is recorded. They love a 'gotcha'. It would be great of local news etc can just quickly find out how many candidates in their area would have passed a biology O level.

ChristinaXYZ · 25/09/2023 18:46

Baldieheid · 25/09/2023 11:36

Who is behind it really isn't relevant. It's a question to be answered. It's the contents of their statements that matters, not who is recording their statements, ffs.
That's stupid. Like blaming the camera operator for what they record.

Agree totally. If all MPs are asked the same question and given the same chance to respond and accurately quoted then it is doing the whole country a democratic favour.

And if it is a free speech lobby group or PR group so what. Free speech is also a corner stone of democracy.

And if it keeps Labour out of power then hoo-bloody-rah. They will take women's rights back years if they get in, we'll be totally stuffed. Labour need a complete turn over of personnel at the top before they're trustworthy on women's rights again.

Baldieheid · 25/09/2023 18:39

Seriously, if Adam Ryan and whoever else wants to avoid this website, off you trot. Don't look back. Begone. Go forth and do whatever it is you want to instead.

You, however, don't get to tell anyone else what the should or should not read, listen to, or watch.

Who do you think you are?

Fukuraptor · 25/09/2023 18:22

AdamRyan · 25/09/2023 17:42

I'm not a man

Is it like a double negative, use two traditionally masculine names in your username and we should know you are female? 🤔

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 25/09/2023 18:16

Nah, Resister, no point to any maps. I've just been assured that most voters don't care what their MPs do or say, with a clear implication that they will continue to vote for plums, no matter how clearly their purple, curved nature is signposted.

Dunno why anyone is worried about this website, at all. No-one would EVER look at it.

ResisterRex · 25/09/2023 18:11

Well it's certainly touched a nerve. I hope the website comes with a map. In fact, lots of maps. Maps for yes, no, didn't give clear answer. And then by those categories for all the main parties.

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 25/09/2023 18:05

You have quoted me, written multiple paragraphs, and yet seem to have gone to ZERO effort to read what I said.

I say that, because your post ends with yet another remark about whether the website is "politically neutral". Let me say this in small words for those rendered illiterate by political tribalism:

I Don't Care.

I do, however, feel a great amount of irritation with your lecture about how I'm a 'minority', as if that should make me think "oh, better give up my principles then".

I'm quite aware that I can't read minds, thank you, and I did not need to be told so. Do make sure to take your attitude with you when you go canvassing for whatever party you support. I believe in you and your ability to drop its constituency vote share.

AdamRyan · 25/09/2023 17:53

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 25/09/2023 16:13

I expect the people contending for our votes to tell the truth about their policies whoever is asking.

This thread has told me various people think it's unreasonable for me to have any expectation of integrity in public life. In fact, apparently I should applaud it if left-wing party members lie to any questioners suspected of being right-wing.

The answer is no.

If someone asks me what 2+2 is, I tell them it's 4. No matter who they vote for, or who's paying them to ask me, because it's the truth.

I expect the same of MPs and prospective MPs, especially as they will be paid far more than I earn, in order to represent me. I will not be reducing my standards and expectations of other people, because I have this thing called "self-respect". I will continue to retain self-respect, no matter how many posters it inconveniences. Even if the posters are non-female ones.

Good for you. You are in a minority. Most voters couldn't care less. Otherwise we wouldn't have had the absolute plums we get as MPs (Jeremy Corbyn, Grant Shapps, Jamie Wallace etc)

And most politicians have to vote/say things along the "party line". For most of us, if we look up our mp on "they work for you", they are going to have voted for policies we strongly disagree with. Conservative politicians are the only ones who have the party top cover at the moment to confidently answer the question. And then the party line is "no women have penises" so you still will be none the wiser as to whether that's what they actually think or whether that's what CCHQ has told them to say.

So yes. This sounds great at face value, but dig deeper and its probably not a politically neutral grass roots thing.

AdamRyan · 25/09/2023 17:42

ResisterRex · 25/09/2023 15:43

I'm even more interested in it, since there are a load of men turning up here to warn us how dangerous this website will be.

I'm not a man

AdamRyan · 25/09/2023 17:41

ArabeIIaScott · 25/09/2023 15:31

It's absolutely crucial that we are vigilant about freedom of speech and expression. This is always a balance, but the balance must be observed.

We should all be able to ask questions of politicians, and hear their answers.

I find it curious that anyone would argue that we need less free speech, less openness, and less knowledge, tbh.

Who is arguing that arabella? Because if that's aimed at me you are completely missing my point

EasternStandard · 25/09/2023 17:27

ResisterRex · 25/09/2023 15:43

I'm even more interested in it, since there are a load of men turning up here to warn us how dangerous this website will be.

Ha yes

Helleofabore · 25/09/2023 16:42

The website will be set up with videos of the MP candidates answering the questions.

MP candidates now know this is happening and that they should expect this action. They will have to own their opinions publicly. If anyone takes their opinion out of context, that will have to be addressed and that candidate will still be publicly on record stating their opinion.

The group behind it says they are apolitical. This does not mean they are not allowed to have their own political beliefs. Far from it. It means they should not show bias towards any one party. It also doesn’t mean that there will be no political party investment or someone involved with any particular political party.

Including using professional services. Such as a PR agency.

Any person using the web site as a source of information needs to be responsible for their own research if it is needed. They can make their judgement as an adult.

Just like every single other choice about which content to consume about any topic. If it turns out it is run by those only interested in free speech, again, what is the difference? Did we discredit the laughing auditor’s videos as being not worthy of watching because he wasn’t a feminist and probably not interested at all in the feminist perspective? Are we supposed to not watch video if it is uploaded by an extreme trans rights supporter?

If this website does what it says, and is run by a free speech group, are we not supposed to view it and evaluate it as we do with every other piece of content published?

JanesLittleGirl · 25/09/2023 16:37

@AdamRyan

There is an element at the moment of some far right movements trying to undermine a lot of our legal frameworks under the guise of "free speech". I find it concerning. I'm sure others disagree but just worth bearing in mind with this kind of thing.

I find this very interesting. Please tell me more about these far right movements and the legal frameworks that they are trying to undermine?

I think that the public needs to know.

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 25/09/2023 16:13

I expect the people contending for our votes to tell the truth about their policies whoever is asking.

This thread has told me various people think it's unreasonable for me to have any expectation of integrity in public life. In fact, apparently I should applaud it if left-wing party members lie to any questioners suspected of being right-wing.

The answer is no.

If someone asks me what 2+2 is, I tell them it's 4. No matter who they vote for, or who's paying them to ask me, because it's the truth.

I expect the same of MPs and prospective MPs, especially as they will be paid far more than I earn, in order to represent me. I will not be reducing my standards and expectations of other people, because I have this thing called "self-respect". I will continue to retain self-respect, no matter how many posters it inconveniences. Even if the posters are non-female ones.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 25/09/2023 15:57

I'm curious as to what discussions the fretful posters on here have had with labour & the lib dems about why they have bought in to the ultimate conspiracy theory - that facts and science no longer exist and that women can have a penis? On the scale of provable facts, this one's as simple as it can be. Verifiable, provable and evidenced.

I'm sure their anxiety would be better directed at all the politicians throwing away women's rights & child safeguarding. Maybe ask why both parties have become finishing schools / retirement homes for male supremacists rather than democratic institutions that foster free speech and where women's voices are allowed to be heard?

Helleofabore · 25/09/2023 15:54

DadJoke · 25/09/2023 15:02

Grass roots? It's clearly an astroterf organisation, if you'll forgive the pun.

This is what Riverside Advisory do:

However, Gallagher’s private client work through his second business, Riverside Advisory, has also attracted attention. He represented those falsely accused and incorrectly investigated during Operation Midland – and was reportedly hired by Prince Andrew in March last year. Described as “straight-talking” and “energetic, intelligent with a great sense of humour”, Gallagher is a sought-after fixer as an industry leader in public and regulatory affairs.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:8zfQPuI33YwJ:macemagazine.com/politicalconsultants/mark-gallagher/&client=firefox-b-d&sca_esv=568184447&hl=en&gl=uk&strip=1&vwsrc=0

Well gosh! Thank you DadJoke for attempting to tell women who and what they should be interested in supporting when it comes to candidates putting potential votes on the line and being published as to how they define 'women'.

I would not have expected a different type of contribution from you.