Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 5

Am disappointed I haven’t been able to watch this week, would really have liked to see Allison in action, she’s amazing from what I’ve been reading.

I may be able to attempt to view a couple of times next week. Do they give running order at the end of each day re witnesses for the next day? I definitely want to see if I can watch further SW witnesses.

Another thank you to everyone for the posts and links, it's the only way I can keep up with what's been happening. It sounds as though Allison is doing really well.

If we want to observe do we just e-mail on the day?

I sincerely hope that once this tribunal is over the fabulous BC will consider using the fantabulous AB as his junior in future cases about GC beliefs and women's rights. And if she doesn't already have one, I hope BC will give AB a red bag after this tribunal is over (she deserves one!!).

Thanks @nauticant that makes sense

I learnt about Support Humans on MN. I use it often. I am not a Support Human. Women are not Support Humans

It's like we're watching intellectual tennis or verbal chess.

I think Allison has the advantage because she believes wholeheartedly in everything she's saying and believes it to be right and true. She scored some humdingers today. Do you think we could get her to stand as an MP?

I have no idea whether he's winning on some of the technical legal points but she is so on top of all of the evidence and her case. I do wonder whether she needs to show more vulnerability in how much this has harmed her because stoic women often appear strong and angry rather than meek and injured - hence the here we go comment. It's clear that she's under enormous pressure. I'm sure EJ is used to seeing how claimants come across under that pressure and after having experienced the breakdown of working relationships.

She's got nothing but admiration from me. She's been fab. Glad for her it's nearly all over though.

He will have had a plan of what he was trying to get AB to say but for once a witness will have known exactly what he was up to and how not to fall into the trap.

Agree.

However much I disagree with his arguments, case, and all round demeanour AH will have earnt his money today. He won't often spend a whole day going head to head with such an articulate, well prepared, calm witness let alone one who has the same experience of the tricks of the trade being deployed. He will have had a plan of what he was trying to get AB to say but for once a witness will have known exactly what he was up to and how not to fall into the trap. When he had concluded a question about an email and then AB asked him to read out the rest of the email [baystard swoons]...

The support humans' facilitation of male happiness was just assumed.

Support humans and our right to say, "I do mind" has never been regarded as more than a polite social fiction by those who are entitled to go ahead and do as they wish, irrespective of agreement.

thank you for articulating this point so clearly.

This, and the thing I didn't realise until relatively recently:

No-one asked us. No-one asked women if we wanted males in our spaces. If we MINDED.

The support humans' facilitation of male happiness was just assumed.

I think the questioning at the end was trying to back up KM and others' point that they would be 'unsafe' if they encountered AB in the toilet

I thought he accidentally wound up creating yet another instructive contrast between Allison and the likes of KM.

drwitch, it seemed to me that AH had spent days being focused in his legally-based challenges to AB's evidence and case and had made some progress in exploiting weaknesses, for example asking for detail about how the complaint from Stonewall necessarily caused GCC to act against AB, but the attempted toilets gotcha seemed to be a lazy kitchen sink approach without fully understanding how GC people have been winning on this point for years, ie objecting to self ID, or to Stonewall =/= transphobia.

Maybe he's going to spring a trap related to it tomorrow in the first hour when he concludes his cross-examination of AB.

H - focus very carefully on the words
AB - what para
AH - are you there, I don't want any further interruption.
AB - please don't misrepresent me. Trying to find it
AH - I am going to read it very slowly

Really wish AB had replied - That's ok, I'll wait 😂

Surely AH must know he is coming across as a bit of a wanker here.

Oh and haha to just Thursday. For him it's a Thursday that he's being handsomely paid for to win a case though .... pressure

I think the questioning at the end was trying to back up KM and others' point that they would be 'unsafe' if they encountered AB in the toilet. Bit as she clearly articulated that she is nothing but respectful and has no issue with genuine trans people in the toilets, then he didn't get anything salacious from that.

Plus she was able to shoehorn in commentary on the widening of the trans umbrella by SW and how tranvestites/ cross dressers were deliberately excluded from GRA.

She was excellent.

Thanks for the new thread ickky, and thanks to everyone posting who is actually watching. Tribunal tweets are great, but people on here are helping to give a fuller picture.

Thanks @nauticant this is what I thought but isn't this a very dangerous strategy for them because it conflates respect for trans people with an absence of boundaries (like the cotton ceiling). - So they are defining being transphobic with reasonable (and legal) behaviour

This brings me to mind of one of Allison's earlier statements, that of the intimation that all they were doing was 'being inclusive' and she retorted 'which excludes me'.

No woman has the right to give permission for anyone other than themselves.

And no woman should have to justify why she refuses permission for herself.

It was an attempt to paint AB as someone willing to be unkind to trans people (ie to be inferred to be a bigot) drwitch.

Thanks @ickky

‘Resisting the penis’ is a fairly fundamental part of being a lesbian FFS. Someone’s homophobia is showing.

As for the speed with which messages are being deleted, if the misogynist monitors really thought we were just socks or bots or a group of silly women wasting our time, they wouldn’t be wasting their time scouring our threads for posts they don’t like. Sounds to me like somebody’s worried.

Haven't been able to watch this one like Maya's so really appreciate the commentary on here. Allison rocks

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