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Original poster

Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 5

1005 replies

ickky · 12/05/2022 15:53

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
nauticant · 13/05/2022 11:03

Another failed gotcha by AH when he strays from legal argument and tries to speak in terms of gender identity.

DomesticatedZombie · 13/05/2022 11:03

Which is to say - an oppressed person can reclaim a slur used against them, but the oppressor using the term is still not okay.

JulesRimetStillGleaming · 13/05/2022 11:02

Timeline is significant

IDidntKnowItWasAParty · 13/05/2022 11:02

My god AH is grasping at invisible non-existent straws!
AH is saying that because AB used the term 'terf wars', that apparently shows that the term 'terf' can never be seen or used as an offensive term, no matter who uses it or when, where etc!
Utter nutter

DomesticatedZombie · 13/05/2022 11:02

Terfy McTerf-face, take a bow.

If AH can understand why some gay men reclaimed 'queer' then he can apply the same logic to 'terf'.

IloveHolby · 13/05/2022 11:01

Thank you @ickky :)

Ameanstreakamilewide · 13/05/2022 11:01

AH just mentioned Terfy McTerf-face. 😂

JulesRimetStillGleaming · 13/05/2022 11:01

Honourable mention for TerfyMcTerfFace

Original poster
ickky · 13/05/2022 10:58

It must be a whole day now wasted on dealing with the various bundle issues.

OP posts:
DomesticatedZombie · 13/05/2022 10:58

Agree, I can't see how this is a tactic. Just Hanlon's Razor.

DomesticatedZombie · 13/05/2022 10:57

I think the bundles were a giant fucking mess. Illegible. Pagination all over the place. So they were renumbered by GCC, but it doesn't seem to have been done very well.

Original poster
ickky · 13/05/2022 10:57

IloveHolby · 13/05/2022 10:52

How do I watch? I've got the link and code but all I can see is a black screen with 'no one is presenting' on it...

Try again and make sure on the first page that the video and mic icons are NOT crossed out.

OP posts:
Chrysanthemum5 · 13/05/2022 10:57

@ResisterRex I am not sure it's a tactic I suspect general incompetence. I could point out that RMW is apparently responsible for the bundles and I'll leave that comment there

DomesticatedZombie · 13/05/2022 10:56

More documents added later on in the afternoon. A newer version ... so people have different versions.

ResisterRex · 13/05/2022 10:56

Why did the bundles get renumbered to begin with? I never followed that. It means there's less time for questions while there's confusion among witnesses and others about which page they're on. If it's a tactic then I don't understand it.

DomesticatedZombie · 13/05/2022 10:53

This bundle fiasco really doesn't seem to be playing out very well. What a shambles.

IloveHolby · 13/05/2022 10:52

How do I watch? I've got the link and code but all I can see is a black screen with 'no one is presenting' on it...

tabbycatstripy · 13/05/2022 10:51

I thought it was because he told EJ ‘don’t worry’ - she can see his condescension and she isn’t immune from it.

Pyjamagame · 13/05/2022 10:50

I think AH is not looking good this morning with his technique. I think if he is trying to make out that AB is not as quick as she should be with jumping around the bundles he's actually making himself look like an unreasonable arse. Looks like EJ is seeing this as well and looking t make sure that AB is where she should be and seeing the documents she should see at the appropriate times

AnnieLou12 · 13/05/2022 10:50

Was the filthy look because of the bundle confusion?

TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 13/05/2022 10:49

Judge pulling AH up for his lack of clarity regards bundles. Judge also interrupted him when he was trying to wearily tell Allison to answer the question, to ask Allison to finish what she was saying.

Yes I really enjoyed her interjections. I never imagined it would be possible to put so much expression into the line "It's numbered 195, and it's also numbered 18031"

MsMarvellous · 13/05/2022 10:48

I can't watch as I'm working but hearing your comments on the EJ, she is very very unhappy with AH. He's pushing his luck!

DomesticatedZombie · 13/05/2022 10:47

Judge pulling AH up for his lack of clarity regards bundles. Judge also interrupted him when he was trying to wearily tell Allison to answer the question, to ask Allison to finish what she was saying.

DomesticatedZombie · 13/05/2022 10:45

AH keeps apparently jumping between bundles without telling people which bundle he's working with, and then getting irritated by AB not knowing where she is. The judge also seems to be getting confused. No wonder.

Appalonia · 13/05/2022 10:43

A B reiterating her belief that it's fascistic of Stonewall that lesbians have to stand with the T!

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