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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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105 replies

DomesticatedZombie · 04/04/2022 09:35

Welcome.

If you're new to Mumsnet and/or the 'gender' debate, and have questions, fire away.

Plenty of knowledgable women here happy to help you out. Smile

We can provide links, evidence and explainers for many of the issues, and point you to further actions and ways to help.

Dive in!

OP posts:
PurgatoryOfPotholes · 20/04/2022 10:31

cocoapopfan · 18/04/2022 20:35

Could anyone recommend resources on the effect of gender identity ideology on women in developing countries, including war zones / refugees? Also on NGOs, the UN and women’s status in international law?

Vaishnavi Sundar, Indian feminist writer and documentary-maker, includes this in her work vaishnavisundar.com/

DomesticatedZombie · 20/04/2022 10:30

Maori women speak out: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4363787-Maori-GC-women-speaking-out-on-YT

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OP posts:
DomesticatedZombie · 20/04/2022 10:29

cocoapopfan · 18/04/2022 20:35

Could anyone recommend resources on the effect of gender identity ideology on women in developing countries, including war zones / refugees? Also on NGOs, the UN and women’s status in international law?

Hi cocoapopfan.

Funnily enough, gender identity ideology is not (so far) so widespread when it comes to developing countries.

Some people might say this is because it's a feature of developed countries, or even a 'luxury belief'.

Still, this will inevitably start to spread and take hold as the charity/NGO sector is well captured by the ideology. UNwomen have form on this. Several threads - if you google 'unwomen mumsnet' they will pop up in search results. Here are a few:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3939430-UN-Women-people-who-menstruate
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4304349-UN-Women-want-submissions-on-status-of-women
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3647931-UN-Women-to-Replace-Women-with-Gender

Other than that specific organisation, there have been some terrible attacks on women campaigning to end FGM. Some trans rights advocates say it's 'transphobic' to use the word 'female'. Hibo Wardere, for example, has received terrible abuse online for her amazing work on raising awareness of FGM. Again, several threads on here if you search her name.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4170253-Anti-FGM-campaigner-Hibo-Wardere-comes-under-attack
www.filia.org.uk/latest-news/2020/11/27/hibo-wardere-one-womans-fight-against-fgm?rq=hibo%20wardere

Amnesty International have been captured for a while - I think not only are they proponents of gender ideology but they support 'sex work'

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4178832-amnesty-international
hiyamaya.net/2021/10/18/amnesty-international-is-sexually-harassing-women-political-protest/

Filia do some great work on international feminism.

www.filia.org.uk/

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Helleofabore · 20/04/2022 10:10

Here is a good starting ground for the inclusivity in sports discussion.

It is done by the Australian TV channel SBS and has a number of experts there to provide perspective on the fact that male inclusion really is done at the detriment to females.

Pluvia · 19/04/2022 09:46

Sorry, cocoapopfan, this isn't an answer to your question.

Someone sent this to me on another platform the other day and I found it very interesting.

Lisa Michele looks back at the 50,000 lobotomies (a brain 'operation') carried out in the US in the 1930s onwards and draws comparison with what's happening today, medicalising young people. She's very thorough, very measured and I will be returning to her You Tube channel to see what other topics she covers.

cocoapopfan · 18/04/2022 20:35

Could anyone recommend resources on the effect of gender identity ideology on women in developing countries, including war zones / refugees? Also on NGOs, the UN and women’s status in international law?

2Paws · 18/04/2022 10:05

@FemaleAndLearning, thank you for explaining Posey. I'd read the essay on pronouns as rohypnol and made the link, but always worried about being 'rude' if I didn't use preferred pronouns in public. I see now how and why Posey does it.

This is an amazing thread for those of us who are new and need to figure out how best to support - thank you all for compiling it.

oldwomanwhoruns · 18/04/2022 09:33

The Women's Rights Network join together local groups all over Britain with campaigns and activism. Contact them to be put in touch with your nearest group:

www.womensrights.network/

They are one of the women's groups behind the current 'Respect my sex if you want my X' campaign, which is getting loads of traction in the press Smile

Waitwhat23 · 18/04/2022 09:25

@HotCrossMocha

Another thing that might be helpful is a simple and clear debunking of the myth about how much greater the suicide risk is in trans teens, and the myth that affirmation lowers this risk substantially. I know people who do see this is a major issue, and are worried about young people they know.
This is a useful link - www.transgendertrend.com/the-suicide-myth/

In a nutshell -

'Although there is no doubt that children and young people suffering gender dysphoria are an extremely vulnerable group deserving of our support and care, the oft-quoted suicide statistics are from surveys which are not robust and there is no evidence that transition is a ‘cure.’

mrshoho · 18/04/2022 09:08

Really good thread, thank you! I'm guilty of not paying attention in the past. I ignorantly thought the trans debates were not my concern and only affected a small minority.

FemaleAndLearning · 18/04/2022 08:45

This thread is brilliant for new visitors.

justicewomen · 18/04/2022 00:00

Legal Feminist at www.legalfeminist.org.uk
are a collective of practising lawyers – solicitors and barristers – who are interested in feminist analysis of law, and legal analysis of feminism. The blogs by Naomi Cunningham are particularly good, such as www.legalfeminist.org.uk/2021/02/01/submission-and-compliance/

Monitaurus · 17/04/2022 23:50

Oops sorry Domesticated Zombie didn’t see you’d posted already.

Monitaurus · 17/04/2022 23:48

For an international perspective, Women’s Declaration Internacional record weekly talks from Gender Critical feminists from around the world every week on YouTube. It is shocking to her from nearly every country in the world how gender ideology is taking hold

TheBiologyStupid · 17/04/2022 23:23

@DomesticatedZombie Jane-Clare Jones wrote an entertaining explainer of recent history

Absolutely excellent, thanks so much for sharing that.

FemaleAndLearning · 17/04/2022 23:19

Kelly Jay Keen, uses plain language and will not capitulate by calling a man who says he is a women a transwoman or woman. She will call them men. Also she refuses to use preferred pronouns. I think she is right we need the language to be plain. I've seen her in action in Nottingham with two men behind her who said they were women. She kept referring to them as blokes and it made the discussion a lot more straight forward. Language is for communication and the language of gender identity ideology has deliberately confused language and conflated terms. So you will hear things like her penis, same gender attraction, transfemale. Even the use of transwoman can confuse people who think it is a woman who is transgender.

There was also some vitrol aimed at her for attending a meeting with other women in America that was hosted by right wing people but I don't know much about that other than I think the woman she went with was a mother to a child who was questioning their gender and the mother was desperate to be heard by someone.

I think she is brilliant and she is excellent at making the most of a moment and capitalising on it to get the message out.

Unfortunately many people really aren't aware of what is happening to women's rights so the more sunlight the better. We never have to agree one hundred percent, that is real inclusivity!
Not sure if this is upthread but this is seen as a classic interview.

NevaehMind · 17/04/2022 22:47

@Linguini

Has "Standing for Women" been mentioned?

www.standingforwomen.com/

Posie Parker (Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull) is often described as "controversial".

She has done incredible work including the infamous
"Woman = Adult Human Female" billboards that all got taken down.

Can someone please explain why PP is thought to be controversial?
HotCrossMocha · 08/04/2022 16:39

Another thing that might be helpful is a simple and clear debunking of the myth about how much greater the suicide risk is in trans teens, and the myth that affirmation lowers this risk substantially. I know people who do see this is a major issue, and are worried about young people they know.

NancyDrawed · 08/04/2022 16:37

Barracker 'Pronouns are Rohypnol' on FPFW

fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/

Because using someone's preferred pronouns is just a courtesy, right? But issues are much clearer if you call a spade a spade, or a man a man, or a TW a 'he'.

DomesticatedZombie · 08/04/2022 16:14

Glad to hear it's useful! If there are specific issues or angles that we've missed, or you'd like to hear more about/ask about, please do fire away. There is generally someone about with well-informed knowledge, or who knows where to go to get it. It's a big subject and various issues overlap.

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Crackersnack · 08/04/2022 15:33

This is such a fantastic resource thread. Thanks so much all of you for putting it together

NecessaryScene · 08/04/2022 08:04

Here's a previous thread with podcast suggestions:

A podcast to explain?

And here's one with documentaries and other videos

'T*rf Wars' documentary on YouTube

VoodooQualities · 08/04/2022 07:57

Thanks for this thread. I'm new here and keen to find out more.

DontLikeCrumpets · 08/04/2022 05:23

Thanks for doing this.