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Original poster

Ruth Hunt & Stonewall, "do not and will not acknowledge that there is a conflict between trans rights and ‘sex based women’s rights’

188 replies

R0wantrees · 04/10/2018 11:18

Response to petition,
www.ipetitions.com/petition/dear-stonewall-please-reconsider-your-approach

Since the planned reform of the Gender Recognition Act was announced a year ago, there have been daily articles and social media threads that question trans people’s right to exist, trying to undermine their ability to go about their daily lives free from fear and abuse. This week, a petition has been launched directly asking Stonewall to reconsider our work on trans equality.
The petition asks us to acknowledge that there are a range of viewpoints around sex and gender. Of course we know that these differing views exist, and have existed for many years. The petition also asks us to acknowledge that there is a conflict between trans rights and ‘sex based women’s rights’. We do not and will not acknowledge this. Doing so would imply that we do not believe that trans people deserve the same rights as others. However, we are unequivocal in our support of trans people’s – and everyone’s – right to equality and will remain so. Our motto is ‘acceptance without exception’. (continues)

www.stonewall.org.uk/stonewall-stories-category/come-out-lgbt/our-work-trans-equality-heart-our-mission-acceptance

current threads:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/petitions_noticeboard/3384045-Petition-to-Stonewall

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3384407-Times-letter-petition-STONEWALL-CRITICISED-undermining-women-s-sex-based-rights-and-protections-Jonny-Best-et-al

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3384307-James-Kirkup-Spectator-lead-article-Trans-rights-have-gone-wrong-The-new-gender-orthodoxy-allows-no-room-for-dissent

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
ChrysanthemumsAreMums · 05/10/2018 05:26

SignMeUp

That's nothing. The Greens filled in the GRA consultation for you

Under the auspices of David and Aimee Challoner (the latter is also on the Stonewall Trans Advisory panel)

Molokonono · 05/10/2018 00:01

I'm actually pretty annoyed at Julie Blundell for that. She has information that could affect how people complete a government consultation and is keeping it back until most people (who know about it) have already sent it in. Better story, worse result.

Huh? What did i miss?

HandsOffMyRights · 04/10/2018 23:58

Not speaking the Ruth has peak transed more on Twitter.

Tonight I've noticed several 'new' trans voices and gay men speaking out against this.

New plan. Just let no truth Ruth speak trans the nation with her tall tales.

DoctorTwo · 04/10/2018 23:51

I understand Ruth Hunt is a lesbian. As she believes TWAW, I would love to ask her if she involves TWs in her sex life, and if not (because penis), does that not make her a transphobic bigot.

LikeDustWeRise · 04/10/2018 23:25

You know Pam I felt like that. I wonder if Stephen Whittle is one of the un-named advisors on the STAG.

MipMipMip · 04/10/2018 23:14

I'm actually pretty annoyed at Julie Blundell for that. She has information that could affect how people complete a government consultation and is keeping it back until most people (who know about it) have already sent it in. Better story, worse result.

Given both Stone wall and the Green Party appear to be doing more than just advising people on how to complete the GRA it must surely be considered compromised. I intend to complain but would it be better if it was started afresh or just viewed as gamed? Not that I expect either to happen.

ErrolTheDragon · 04/10/2018 23:02

Not forgetting 'enjoy your erasure' Faye.

heresyandwitchcraft · 04/10/2018 22:54

It all seems a little like leakage. So many narratives the trans activists have been saying are almost the direct reverse of what is happening.

"Erasing/invalidating trans people"
No, that's what YOU are doing to women/lesbians. Jess Bradley was on national television saying there was no such thing as a real woman. Trans activists don't think there is such a thing as an actual female. Lesbians are being told their same-sex orientation is invalid, and that they're not real lesbians.... YOU are silencing women.

Original poster
R0wantrees · 04/10/2018 22:44

She has ramped up the divisive state of play during her interview - casting the TRAs as victims of a campaign to erase them

This is a definite narrative.
See Owen Jones, Jane Fae etc

OP posts:
Original poster
R0wantrees · 04/10/2018 22:43

That's how Ruth Hunt came across to me - an advocate holding a brief from the Trans Advisory Panel, that was thin and insubstantial, but giving it her best shot. It was a neat sleight of hand to disguise the fact that Stonewall has been the driver of transgender policies.

Didn't 'Press For Change' work with/advise Stonewall?

OP posts:
theOtherPamAyres · 04/10/2018 22:21

The way Ruth Hunt handled the PM interview reminded me of something. She reminded me of an advocate that had received instructions from a client.

Solicitors/advocates tell you that it is not their place to judge the client's story. They don't have to believe it or question it - their job is to provide the best possible case on their behalf. Solicitors won't make up stuff, or embellish, but will 'take the line' that their client instructed them to - even when it sounds crazy.

That's how Ruth Hunt came across to me - an advocate holding a brief from the Trans Advisory Panel, that was thin and insubstantial, but giving it her best shot. It was a neat sleight of hand to disguise the fact that Stonewall has been the driver of transgender policies.

Ruth set up the Trans Advisory Panel. She was doing so well with the flimsy brief backed by crackpot science and puff, before the sticky brown stuff hit the chandelier.

She has ramped up the divisive state of play during her interview - casting the TRAs as victims of a campaign to erase them and failing to acknowledge the concerns from LBG and Women.

Noqont · 04/10/2018 22:20

If men really want to be women, then they've got to take the shit with the sunshine.

That's it isn't it. As socialised men they don't expect to be treated like that. And when they are they blame the women for it, for failure to take them in, protect them and take the fall when things go wrong. But actually, it's men that are to blame for this. The men that are violent or abusive and the men who think it's ok to tell the women to budge up because they're coming in and they're going to be women now as well.

Original poster
R0wantrees · 04/10/2018 22:16

Lachlan Stuart Twitter comment:

"In the year ending 30 Sept 2017, Stonewall received grants of around £300k (FCO), £150k (DfE), £115k (WelshG) and £100k (ScotG) - representing more than 2/3 of its grants income, a tenth of all income, and an increase of more than 100k in government grants from the previous year.

More public money filled Stonewall coffers through the fees it charges, much of which is paid by publicly funded authorities, and for the programmes it runs. Taxpayers have the right to insist that Stonewall understands and upholds the law, even as it lobbies for reform.

Today, CEO Ruth Hunt went on Radio 4 and claimed that it's 'enshrined in law' that 'trans women are women'. A credible, publicly funded expert voice, given a national platform.

That's not the law. For most intents and purposes, for some trans people, it may as well be ...

.. but not for all purposes, and certainly not for all people under Stonewall's all-encompassing 'trans umbrella'. Far from it. And Ruth knows it, which is why she's lobbying for change.

File under 'disingenuous', marked 'for Ministerial attention'."

twitter.com/Lachlan_Edi/status/1047929015602991105

(Domestic Policy Adviser Labour Party)

OP posts:
FloralBunting · 04/10/2018 22:13

Grrrr. Practising Roman Catholic here. It is not the teaching of the Church that female souls get put into male bodies.

HawkeyeInConfusion · 04/10/2018 22:13

So is that statement publicly announcing that Stonewall are no longer an LBGT+ organisation, but are now a GBT+ organisation (and not even that)

Rubidium · 04/10/2018 22:10

Ruth Hunt (and Owen Jones!) think that the proposed GRA amendment is 'admin' (2' 17" in):

www.theguardian.com/world/video/2018/apr/20/stonewalls-ruth-hunt-tells-owen-jones-my-heart-breaks-for-trans-communities-video-interview

A big irony here is that the adverse experiences of the transgender community Hunt describes at the beginning of the video, ("when they walk down the street they get abuse, enter into a toilet and they're worried') are things that are experienced by women all the time. If men really want to be women, then they've got to take the shit with the sunshine.

SignMeUp · 04/10/2018 21:59

Is it me, or does it seem a little shady that Stonewall has a way for people to submit their GRA consultation directly through their web-site?

Popchyk · 04/10/2018 21:41

No news from Stonewall on how they intend to force the Catholic Church to accept women who identify as men into the priesthood.

Clearly Stonewall must consider that there is no conflict between the Catholic Church's male sex-based right to enter the priesthood and a female person's right to access that exact same male sex-based right. No conflict there clearly.

It is almost as if it is only ever women's spaces that are fair game for invasion by men.

Original poster
R0wantrees · 04/10/2018 21:36

From Spectator article today, 'Trans rights have gone wrong
The new gender orthodoxy allows no room for dissent'
James Kirkup writes:
(extract)
"What explains the disproportionate number of girls (child ‘assigned female at birth’, to use the approved term) who are starting a journey that can lead to hormone treatment, then binding and ultimately removing their breasts? Is it possible that this is simply part of a wider crisis of mental health among girls?

I don’t know, and neither do the doctors and scientists who study this issue. If you talk to the clinicians at the Tavistock Clinic in London, the NHS centre for the treatment of gender-variant children, they’ll tell you that all the factors I mentioned may be at work, but the evidence base is still incomplete, that they need more time and data before offering explanations. (They’ll also tell you that quite a lot of the children referred to them as ‘transgender’ will in time ‘desist’ and decide to live in their original gender.)

The government now intends to commission research into all this. You might think that sounds sensible and mundane. You would be wrong.

According to Tara Hewitt, founder of the Trans Equality Legal Initiative (TELI), prominent campaigner for transgender rights and an adviser to numerous public bodies including the NHS, the proposed research is ‘absurd and offensive’. The project should be ‘dropped in the bin — it’s simply not an inquiry that needs to happen,’ Hewitt reckons.

This is the quintessential trans-rights response to scrutiny: even looking for facts about children’s welfare is transphobic. Just accept that trans girls are girls and trans women are women. End of debate." (continues)

OP posts:
Original poster
R0wantrees · 04/10/2018 21:32

Isn't Tara Hewitt also a practicing Roman Catholic?

Tara Hewitt talked about her faith in 2016 interview:
'What it's like to be Transgender and Catholic
Tara Hewitt, NHS equality and diversity advisor, doesn't believe in abortion or IVF but says it doesn't affect her job'

(extract)
“In religion one of the biggest challenges is people perceive the church as being separate from society, but most would say their faith is made by the people in it.

“People don’t know about trans issues, it’s not that catholics are discriminating against trans people, its just that society is discriminating against transpeople.”

She also claims the bible doesn’t focus on gender.

“With the bible there is more of a discussion on sexuality but God doesn’t have a gender - God isn’t male or female, they are both.

“When we talk about God, he’s above that.”

Tara, who lives in New Brighton, is also a pansexual, which means she is attracted to any gender.

But, although she supports gay marriage and same-sex adoption, she doesn’t believe in IVF.

“None of my views are based on sexual orientation I support love.

“Millions of people share my view but, because they aren’t trans, they aren’t targetted.

“It’s hard being right wing and trans, I get attacked from both sides.”

Tara was on the Conservative Party candidate list in the last election and came under fire when a Sun report ‘revealed’ her sexual fetishes.

Hewitt reportedly described herself as an “advocate of the BDSM (bondage, discipline and sadomasochism) community”, and into “swinging” and “pet play”, which is dressing up as an animal for sex." (continues)

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/what-its-like-transgender-catholic-10810323

OP posts:
DayMay · 04/10/2018 21:32

The Catholic church like every organisation has always had people enter and destroy it from within, much like Stonewall and the Labour party are now experiencing.

LikeDustWeRise · 04/10/2018 21:23

Isn't Tara Hewitt also a practicing Roman Catholic?

DayMay · 04/10/2018 21:15

www.indcatholicnews.com/news/34750

"We are deeply concerned that this ideology of gender is creating confusion."

"Indeed, the body is God's gift."

ItsNotUnusualToBe · 04/10/2018 21:15

There is a direct conflict between the belief that all ‘trans women are women’ and Female Genital Mutilation is illegal.

Or are going to describe FGM as bottom surgery from now on? Or is Female Genital Mutilation only illegal on women with penises? Or it is ‘obsessed with genitals’ to be concerned about FGM?

Hmm
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