Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Dr Julia Long has just been brilliant on LBC

166 replies

ToeToToe · 21/08/2018 09:23

www.lbc.co.uk/london/radio/player/

You should be able to listen again here. 9am. There's a discussion going on now.

Talking about the penis stickers, and single sex spaces.

The trans-activist they on says that we should make space for all kinds of women: including "angry" women.

Yes, now there are women, angry women and trans women.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
SturdyEarmuffs · 21/08/2018 12:25

DOdo, I've not heard Vicky Leigh before & suspect you might be right about the usual suspects not wanting to face Julia on a debate. Vicky was pretty poor but mainly because Julia challenged them directly - something I've not heard any other GC person be allowed to do. It really was an extraordinary interview & I want to hear more like that!

HotRocker · 21/08/2018 12:22

I haven’t RTFT, but just listened back. Who on earth was that Vicky Long person? I don’t think I’ve ever heard such an incomprehensible, ineloquent, ineffectual stumbling idiot in all my life, and I used to frequently listen to the post football phone-ins on local radio. If that’s the best the TRAs can do to convince people on MSM, then bring it on. Julia Long was great, but then I think my 10 Y o DS could have run rings around that individual. I’m guessing they are not related.
As for different types of women, well currently I’m a disabled woman, a lesbian woman, occasionally an angry woman, but right now slightly amused woman.
Incidentally, I asked my DS last night what was his first thought when I said the statement, women do not have penises? Erm... that’s obvious, was his response.

TwistedStitch · 21/08/2018 12:22

Vicky sounded drunk. Julia Long was brilliant, as was Nick Ferrari- a total lack of tiptoeing and fawning that usually accompanies these kinds of interviews meant the message was clear and showed the TRA's points up for the drivel they are.

ijustwannadance · 21/08/2018 12:21

I wonder if all the usual suspects who get trotted out to represent the trans pov are on holiday

I suspect they are all laying low due to the recent Bradley fiasco. It's all been very quiet lately. They know the spotlight has shifted.

WichBitchHarpyTerfThatsMe · 21/08/2018 12:16

Brava Julia!

There's another category not mentioned by Vicky, WOMEN WHO TALK COMPLETE SENSE!.

R0wantrees · 21/08/2018 12:09

Eddie Mairs did an interview with Amy Desir #ManFriday & Jane Fae May 29th 2018

(The link to the program says not available)

I can't find a thread specifically discussing the interview but its mentioned in context here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3262965-Good-article-today-BBC-on-the-twitter-ban-on-womens-free-speech-on-trans-issues?pg=1

DidoAndHerLament · 21/08/2018 12:06

Julia Long was fantastic and it was so good to hear debate like this in mainstream media rather than the usual fawning 'aren't you brave' narrative. It really concerns me that outside the relatively small bubbles of MN, Twitter, radical feminism etc, people don't get the ramifications of self-ID. That's not intended as a criticism by any means, in fact I think many people are simply intending to be inclusive and sensitive. But by making it emotively relevant with that example of male carers for your elderly mother is hopefully going to make people sit up and listen. And protest.

D0do · 21/08/2018 12:02

So would I, SturdyEarmuffs! (great name)

She was excellent. I wonder if all the usual suspects who get trotted out to represent the trans pov are on holiday. Vicky's performance was dire.

I have hopes that now Eddie Mair has gone to LBC maybe they might let him loose on this issue too. I never heard him do anything about it on PM but the BBC's record on this is so poor maybe he wasn't allowed to.

Oldstyle · 21/08/2018 12:01

That JHB interview is solid gold - especially LM's 'if you say you're a woman you're a woman but if you say you're black you aren't because ummm complicated biology ummm not a table errrrr ummm gibber'. Summed up by this comment I think:
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it must be an aubergine.

SturdyEarmuffs · 21/08/2018 11:54

Just listened - by god Julia was good! I vote Julia does every media interview on trans stuff for ever more. She would skewer Jane Fae, and I'd pay good money to hear that. Star

YesSirCowBoy · 21/08/2018 11:52

WombOfOnesOwn

This issue has really cemented the fact that no political party believes that women are full human beings with as much right to autonomy and self-direction as any man.

Copied from the AIBU thread.

I seems to me the BBC also view us as above and I think we should start a campaign about this issue above.

R0wantrees · 21/08/2018 11:45

Julia Hartley Brewer interviewing Lily Madigan:

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3187420-Talk-radio-Julia-Hartley-Brewer-Lily-Madigan

littlbrowndog · 21/08/2018 11:45

Julia long 🍹🍸

Was brilliant

YesSirCowBoy · 21/08/2018 11:44

How would we request a BBC question time special on this issue, with one of the above also on the panel? As Paris less got a biased special Julia Long should also?

AsAProfessionalFekko · 21/08/2018 11:43

Where do 'pissed off women' or 'irritated women' fit?

R0wantrees · 21/08/2018 11:43

Nick Robinson was skilled at too.

His extended interview with Paris Lees is worth listening to (link within thread below):
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3270344-Paris-Lees-interviewed-by-Nick-Robinson-on-Radio-4-now-on

It was strikingly different to Jeremy Vine's interview with Paris Lees:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3295715-Paris-Lees-on-What-makes-us-human-R2-Jeremy-Vine

Destinysdaughter · 21/08/2018 11:43

Nick Ferrari was brilliant too. Just not allowing Vicky to get away with stuff. Just goes to show how their arguments don’t hold water when they are properly debated. Thanks so much for posting this OP, really cheered me up!

YesSirCowBoy · 21/08/2018 11:42

Thank you.

R0wantrees · 21/08/2018 11:39

This is something I note the LBC woman (Julia?) who interviewed Madigan asking if they self Id as a table and Nick Robinson was skilled at too

Julia Hartley Brewer.... she also managed India Willoughby's attempt to control the narrative better than daytime TV presenters.

Interview with Justine Roberts and IW after Mumsnet announcement that it had been targetted by TRAs but would try to uphold opportunity for free civil speech:

Dr Nic Williams discusses India Willoughby's control of interviews:
fairplayforwomen.com/thank-india-w-showing-us-women-perceive-transwomen-still-male/

recent threads:
This Morning
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3302512-India-Willoughby-has-had-facial-feminisation-surgery

Loose Women:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3329142-IW-on-Loose-Women

YesSirCowBoy · 21/08/2018 11:27

What was happening there was a trans person attempting to use an oppression hierarchy, and doing the usual piggy backing on someone else's issue.

This is something I note the LBC woman (Julia?) who interviewed Madigan asking if they self Id as a table and Nick Robinson was skilled at too.

Victoria Derbyshire and This morning staff are very lacking in those skills, the lack of critical thinking skills and ego gets in the way.

BraveAndStunning · 21/08/2018 11:27

Julia, you were brilliant! Well done, thank you and please do more interviews.

Lottapianos · 21/08/2018 11:26

'I particularly enjoyed Vicky's sad story about their disabled relative, who is frankly just grateful to get any care at all'

Same here! 'Just stop whining, women, and be grateful for how good you have it'. Hmm

Ferrari wasted no time shutting that crap down either Grin

Totally agree that Julia sounds like a normal, reasonable person, and avoids the 'angry feminist' stereotype, although of course, there's plenty to be angry about....

R0wantrees · 21/08/2018 11:22

Important case reported December 2017

'NHS trust apologises to woman after ‘nurse with stubble and deep voice’ tried to take smear test'
(extracts)
"The NHS has apologised to a woman who was left “embarrassed and distressed” after a nurse with stubble and a deep voice was going to carry out her cervical smear test at hospital. The woman requested a female NHS nurse to perform the intimate procedure but was dismayed when a staff member with “an obviously male appearance” greeted her. When the patient pointed out the mistake, the nurse replied: “My gender is not male. I’m a transsexual.”

The woman declined to go ahead with the examination – given to women aged 25 to 49 every three years and every five years for women aged 50 to 64 – and complained about her treatment. She stressed her complaint was not about the nurse’s appearance or gender status." (continues)

“[It was] weird where somebody says to you: ‘My gender is not male’ and you think: ‘Well, what does that even mean? You are clearly a man’, the woman told the Sunday Times. “[The nurse] had an obviously male appearance . . . close-cropped hair, a male facial appearance and voice, large number of tattoos and facial stubble.” The patient said it was “bad enough for a fortysomething mother”, but the effect of such an incident on her 17-year-old daughter would have been much worse." (continues)

"However, under plans being considered by ministers, adults will be able to change their birth certificates at will without a doctor’s diagnosis, while non-binary gender people will be able to record their gender as “X”.

James Caspian, a psychotherapist who specialises in working with transgender people, said self-certification would create many similar situations arising in the future.

“Politicians have not thought through all the implications of allowing self-certification,” he said." (continues)

inews.co.uk/news/health/nhs-woman-transgender-nurse-smear-test/