EHCP support thread no. 6

Woo hoo! Only 11 months after our first application for an EHCNA, we have been allocated a SEND worker and DD is going to be assessed! (I appreciate this is only the first hurdle, but still, it's the first hurdle). Am very grateful to @KeepItSpinning and the existence of this thread.

@Runningshoes99 if you don’t have a finalised EHCP by the normal secondary admissions deadline in October of Y6, you should make a normal application just in case. If an EHCP is subsequently finalised, the placement named in the EHCP will override any offer made via the normal admission process.

A refusal to issue isn’t a given. Although many have to appeal, not all do. You can look at statistics for your LA on the government’s website.

Thanks for the reply, I guess you’re right about the LA experts. This is so gruelling, I feel like I’m just going through the motions of a process designed to undermine me and all our evidence about what DD needs and we just have to sit back and wait for the inevitable negative verdict which we will then have another awful process to go through challenging it. Also we are at end of y4 now so don’t have that much time before phase transfer :( does anyone know what happens if we do finally get the EHCP but we’ve missed the phase transfer period?

If you have the email addresses of the EP and feel there are things you didn’t say, you could email them.

It isn’t unusual for LAs to not undertake cognitive testing as part of their EP assessments. Lots of LA reports are poor, I’m afraid. It doesn’t mean they won’t prefer their own evidence over the EP report. The LA should consider all evidence. Unfortunately, LAs often ignore this or pay lip service to ‘considering’ some evidence. If you, the LA and the report writer agree the existing independent report is sufficient, the LA shouldn’t have sought another EP assessment. Sadly, LAs often say they don’t think it is sufficient so they can seek their own reports. Conveniently, these will be less detailed, specified and quantified and often cursory in nature.

Hi everyone. My DD is finally undergoing Needs Assessment (LA initially refused then caved just before tribunal). We had an EP this week come to the school and met with me for an hour before assessing her. In the meeting I just fell apart, didn't say half of the points I'd meant to say and just got emotional. I can't stop thinking I've messed everything up and missed the opportunity to really advocate for her properly. I do think our case as I've prepared it is strong and set out clearly in my but I'm just worried I didn't get the EP onside, her eyes were just glazing over in this meeting, she then watched my DD in a writing lesson and then did some 1:1 time with her but according to my DD they just drew a picture and chatted about what she did and didn't like at school. So she didn't really do a full assessment (we did have a private assessment by an independent EP done, does this sound like they won't be challenging that if they didn't carry out their own tests?) Appreciate any advice from anyone who has navigated this!

Even though the school/you discussed what amendments were needed at the AR meeting and just afterwards and the report was sent to the LA, the LA must still issue a formal amendment notice/notice of amendment/draft and give you at least 15 days to comment on it. At that point, if the amendments you/the school told the LA were needed aren’t included in the proposed amendments from the LA, you can still comment to say they are required and reference your evidence.

Thanks for the reply- the school had added in all the provision from the reports, I had added a few more before it went to the LA who have reluctantly kept some, watered down others and removed anything expensive but cannot tell me what process they have used to make those decisions, just what they feel like it seems, nothing evidence based, all consultations last year were negative 3 said this child blatantly needs 1:1 but they just won’t fund it the evidence is so strong it’s just nonsense.

You can respond to the amendment notice with the amendments that are required. Reference the evidence, including the independent EP report, when you do this.

Some LAs sometimes do send reports parents submit to their professionals to sign off. It’s nonsense really. The LA should consider all evidence. LAs don’t need sign off.

Advice and information should be sought and circulated prior to the AR meeting. This is an often neglected part of the AR process unless there is time allocated in F of the EHCP for it, and even then LAs try to cut corners. Although, this advice and information is unlikely to be a full report from an EP.

After issuing the original draft and giving you at least 15 days to make representations, there is no further requirement for the LA to issue another draft if they aren't going to make any amendments or the amendments made are a result of your representations. (And to add the placement/type of placement.) However, if they propose to make other amendments, they should issue a revised draft. Based on Reg 14 and SENCOP 9.125.

Unfortunately some have to appeal to secure 1:1.

Hello after some advice, we have an EHCP got additional private EP report which states need for constant 1:1. Annual review meeting completed by school no response by LA, then officer advises process is to send private EP to their EP service and then meet with them and stated a date for this to happen. Date goes by with no update. I escalate via team manager who decides I will get a decision in a short timeframe, second send team member then issues amendment notice and draft plan removing a lot of the additional provision including need for 1:1 - refuses to provide any rationale, I ask for EP advice they have used - they claim no advice had been sought and they will do this after the parental consultation the issue final plan. Surely if they use any “advice” from EP service I should have access to that before the parental consultation otherwise it would be unlawful?

LOL. Thank you again @KeepItSpinning. Good shout re SARs -- if I had done that before I would have known about this missing letter.

Have chatted to the school and the SEND team at the LA and I'm just going to start again from the beginning with a new application. We originally started in August last year and since then we had the evidence of what was happening but no bullet proof diagnoses or professional reports, which I now have coming out of my ears. Starting again is the shorter route timewise. Really appreciate your help.

Ignore the last paragraph. It was meant for another thread. I thought I had pressed post on here, briefly looked away and then came back to MN and started typing thinking I had already swapped threads.

If this is a sixth form at a state school, they shouldn’t be off-rolling DD just because her health means she can’t attend full time.

Some people do choose to request another EHCNA rather than challenging the Tribunal’s decision. You can request another EHCNA now if you wish.

I think SENDIASS is slightly confused. SEND20A would be where you are asking for permission to appeal because you believe SENDIST erred in law. Sometimes appeals can still be made where there is a procedural error. Sometimes people complete a SEND20C then if that isn’t successful go on to complete a SEND20A, but it depends on the circumstances of the case. SEND20B would be for a change of circumstances rather than procedural error. SEND20C would be asking for the decision to be set aside (rather than appeal). This can be for procedural irregularities. It depends on what the document was as to whether this includes your circumstances. The LA not using certain evidence doesn’t always automatically make it a procedural error. But if, for example, the LA didn’t include a witness statement from the school, it can be. Did you check the bundle? Without knowing more/seeing the case, it is hard to say for certain, but from your post, I would have tried SEND20C first. Although even with SEND20A, SENDIST will review their decision anyway before granting permission.

Time is how long is a piece of string I’m afraid. To properly hear back on the application, a lot can be up to 10 weeks, although I know some longer, but you will hear before then with an acknowledgement.

I know the forms say to post or fax, but SENDIST accepts emails.

Just so you know, late applications can also be made. Although aren’t guaranteed to be accepted.

Did you submit SARs? If not, do that now. To the school, LA and any other service/agency/professional DD involved.

If DS is autistic, that is most likely his primary need is ASD. Not all LAs state the primary need in EHCPs. Focus on overall presentation rather than just primary need. There can be a huge scope in needs within a primary need and just because a school caters for a certain type of primary need doesn’t mean they are necessarily the right school for a child.

I'm trying really hard to stay sane.

We appealed LA's decision not to assess, and then heard back from the tribunal who said the LA were right to refuse an assessment because DDs needs are clear, and that the school are able to support her educational needs within "normal provision" despite the fact she is only able to attend for one hour a day and is doing three A'levels. (The school have been saying this situation is not acceptable and want to off-roll her.)

I submitted a request for permission to appeal the tribunal's decision by mail (as per form SEND 20a) on the 2nd June.

On the 3rd June I had a conversation with the school who revealed they had written to the LA in December to say they could not meet DD's needs. They have never said that clearly to me before. They said the LA had never acknowledged receipt, the school had not -cced me or told me of this letter's existence, and the LA did not include the letter in the tribunal pack. The school then shared the letter with me.

I sent another copy of the same 20a form, with the letter attached as additional evidence, on the 3rd June. Our deadline for a request for permission to appeal was the 4th June. I have evidence both submissions were received (track and trace).

I have subsequently spoken to SENDIASS who told me I should have used form 20b as there was a procedural error (which I didn't know about when I originally did form 20a). This is unhelpful advice because it is way past the deadline.

All of which to say: does anyone know how long it takes them to respond to a request for permission to appeal a tribunal decision? (And/or what happens next?)

I'm trying to negotiate with the school what we do for the rest of this term, but without any time boundaries it's really hard. (I'm also wondering whether we need to start again from the beginning, or if that is even allowed -- we started all of this in November ...).

Sigh. Thank you for any insight if any of you have some. I would like to say it makes me feel better to know that others are also fighting the system, but it just makes it feel worse for all of us. Fortitude and solidarity xxx

@SpaceInvader321 rather than just cc’ing the DCS, try emailing directly. It doesn’t always work, but it is worth a try. Sometimes it will work and sometimes you won’t get a direct response, but it prompts action. Yes, tell them if they do not act, you will be forced to take further action. You could also try contacting the Monitoring Officer. SOSSEN do pre-action letter but there is a wait. I’m not sure you will be from your previous posts, but check if you are eligible for legal aid.

Our LA is now two weeks late responding to DC's AR, in which the SS and EP recommended EOTAS.

When I chased the day after the deadlne, the LA said they hadn't received the paperwork -- although the school had submitted it on time via the LA's portal.

Then the LA said they couldn't open it.

Then they said it had been sent to the wrong LA email address.

Now they've notified us of a change in caseworker and that person has again requested the documents and said once reviewed they'll go to panel.

I've replied, pointed out that they are acting unlawfully, cc'd the Dir of Children's services and asked them to confirm the date they will send us the response. Do I need to threaten JR? I would so much rather spend the money on actual provision for my child who has not been in school for over a year. Are there low-cost services for a PAP? I'm not familiar with that process. Thanks.

@Leafywool that’s right. 20 weeks from the initial EHCNA request unless you had to appeal refusal to assess &/or refusal to issue.

To submit an appeal, you have 2 months from the decision letter or 1 month from the mediation certificate, whichever is later. I wouldn’t bother with mediation, particularly for a content appeal. I would just get the certificate and submit the appeal. At the moment, appeals that are non-expedited cases are taking over a year to get to a final hearing, I’m afraid. Because DD is not attending school, you would be able to request an expedited hearing. It isn’t guaranteed to be agreed, but if it is while there would still be a long wait, it would be a shorter wait than it otherwise would be.

Thank you @KeepItSpinning not patronising at all! He has done a fantastic job. I looked at the timeline from IPSEA and your post and realise I read it wrong, thinking it was 20 weeks from our comments being submitted but it’s actually 20 weeks from me submitting the original EHCNA request? If so that is very soon!!

Just thinking ahead and assuming the worst - do you know if there’s a timeline for the appeals process? I have been looking online but can only find info saying we have 2 months to appeal after the final EHC plan is sent to us. I am sure I read in the past that it’s best to skip mediation and go straight to appeal. I’m assuming it’s one of those ‘it takes as long as it takes’ kind of things.

Thanks for advice re schools. We have ended up naming the one we visited as our preference since we couldn’t get a reply from any others. It potentially could be a good choice for her so we are ok with that, but will see what happens.

@ThoseBootsAreMadeForWalking if you aren’t getting anywhere with the secondary school’s SENCO, I would contact the HOY if you know who that will be or if you don’t, one of the SLT.

I tried to get in touch with the SENCO at secondary to no avail but will try again. I contacted all the ones on your list by email, will follow up by phone. I already had one initial reply. Enhance transition was mentioned and I was approved at the school we were hoping to get. Thank you about the feedback on the Chelsea Psychology Clinic, one of my questions to them was around the specific EHCP sections in report for tribunal purposes and their reply wasn’t a firm yes, which worried me.

I wouldn’t use the Chelsea Psychology Clinic for a Tribunal.

If I am going to spend that amount of money, and EP reports for Tribunal are expensive, there are many others I would prefer to use to get a medico-legal report.

If you haven’t even submitted the appeal yet, you will be fine for time.

Have you met with the SENCO at the secondary school DC has been allocated? Is DC having an enhanced transition? If there is a school you feel would better meet DC’s needs but you weren’t offered a place on National Offer Day, did you appeal?

KeepItSpinning - endlessly grateful thank you. I will try these. Have you heard of the Chelsea EP clinic? They have availability this month but are eye wateringly dear (parents chipping to help but I want to make sure quality of reports are worth it. LA refused to issue on Friday (after being make to assess by Tribunal) so will lodge appeal next week. My worry is secondary in September. A bit in panic mode. Any guidance would be appreciated x

You could try: Vivienne Clifford, Valarie Hero, Jemma Levy, Stephanie Satariano, Catherine Pierce, Michael Hymans, and Shirley Moyse. Craig Tribe and Nick Palmer will often travel your way. All will be busy and it can take perseverance. Depending on how quickly you need one, if the above haven’t got availability within the timescale you need, if you shout I will post another list.

Could someone please recommend a private EP that is good and would produce a report in the EHCP / Tribunal format? I am at my absolute wits end. LA refused to assess. I appealed, Tribunal ruled in my favour. LA appointed EP that didn’t listen to us or school SEN team and only briefly spoke to my child (who masks a lot at school). LA decided not to issue so back to appealing but lack of evidence. Any recommendations of thorough EPs in Kent / London on here or DMs, I would be very grateful. TIA.

@Leafywool sell done Leafy and DH. (ETA: that sounds patronising, but it was a genuine well done. It can feel relentless and never-ending.) The LA has until week 20 to finalise. Sometimes some LAs will send another draft before finalising but they don’t have to if they don’t make any amendments or the amendments made are a result of your representations (and to add the placement/type of placement). They only have to reissue another draft if they propose to make other amendments.

Some schools won’t enter into conversation &/or allow visits before the LA has sent consults. Even then, some schools don’t until named. Even if schools won’t enter into conversation with you, it is worth emailing any you think may have already been consulted or will be consulted to ensure they have an accurate picture. LA consults are notorious for being incomplete and/or inaccurate.

@Namechange857 pointless SENDIST having the proposed consent order from the LA if you haven’t signed it.

We sent our comments about the draft EHCP back yesterday. Thanks to advice on this thread! I felt so overwhelmed and didn’t even know where to start but I sent DH some screenshots from here and he did a hell if a lot of research alongside it, and spent the whole day yesterday going through it all. He has done a very good job and I feel relieved. There was indeed so much vague wording and odd things such as putting the responsibility on dd to ‘self refer’ to things (big WTF since she’s an autistic 12 year old girl with anxiety disorder). It’s just a load of shit basically and DH has pulled it to bits. I am not sure what the timeline is now to hear anything back but at least we’ve done our part for now.

We have until the 10th to name our preference on school but it’s proving difficult to actually get a response from anywhere. We’ve managed to go and see one school which is in a different town but easily reached by train. They have an RP for autistic children, but they do 80% of classes in mainstream and it’s very academic/high achieving which I think would actually suit DD very much as she is desperate to be stretched academically. She has a friend at her autism group who is in Y9 and goes there and she loves it (dd says she has the ‘same flavour’ of autism as her).

I’ve emailed and called some others but keep getting fobbed off back to sending emails and no one has responded yet. If we have to put the one we viewed down I don’t think it would be a bad thing, but I’d really like to see some others for comparison.