EHCP support thread no. 6

So neither SENCo will get back to me and our case worker refuses to answer the phone. My husband managed to get hold of them and apparently they opened the conversation with - "I've seen all the many emails you keep sending..." and effectively said they would name the school DS has been allocated via general admissions even if they say no in the consultation. Apparently kept speaking over him and as soon as he mentioned not following procedure, he said it was like a trigger phrase that went into full defence mood and the call was quite quickly ended after that. We have seen today that our second school which offered the place during regular admission, responded with - "The setting is unsuitable for the age, ability, aptitude or special educational needs of the child or young person". Going to wait to hear from the SENCOs but honestly feeling deflated. I already had little faith in the LA so back to the "many emails" and constant virtual nudges to the schools and LA. Thank you all for your advice these past few days though, it's been incredibly helpful.

I would still appeal ASAP. Even if those few bits are added into F, it is still inadequate. Plus, if DS is to not attend the school, it should not be named in section I. Whatever you do, don’t let your right your right of appeal lapse. The it is a common tactic for LAs to say they will do XYZ then go back on their word, conveniently stringing parents along until after the right of appeal lapses.

Some providers only work with certain cohorts. Have you checked with the mentor service directly?

So I’ve found out more of what’s happened - it seems like the issue is panel decided to continue funding his current provision, the case worker speaking to the HOP manager about what this is.

the HOP manager only told the LA about the online learning but didn’t mention the mentoring, the social club, or the conversations we’d been having about increasing hours and moving to in person tutoring, hence the inadequate provision.

The case worker has actually come back and said if HOP confirm what he was receiving she’ll take it back to panel to see if it can be funded, HOP are saying the mentor service only work with HOP but they can continue to give DS access until their is a replacement. I don’t understand why the LA can’t just continue to fund the provision?

anyway the cliff edge has gone but I’m still aware that the communication from HOP has been poor which has mean even though the LA has said they are continuing current provision, it’s not actually taking into account the fact that this is designed to grow and iterate and that this is all done outside of school. I have gone back with this to the LA.

Not sure if that means holding off on the appeal or if I should still go ahead?

While the LA has a duty under s19 of the Education Act 1996 to ensure DS receives a full-time education that is suitable to age, aptitude, ability and SEN, full time isn’t defined in law. It should offer a good quality education equivalent to that offered by MS as far as DS’s needs allow (i.e. it should be broad and balanced curriculum and not just core subject tuition and some cover DS’s pastoral, social and emotional needs) but if 1:1 it can be fewer hours.

For example, the LGO currently views a full-time education as 22-25hrs per week, depending on age. this is one of their reports stating so. Although if 1:1 it can be less because it is more concentrated. For example, this LGO case found 12.5 and 15 hours 1:1 not to be full time but 17.5 and 20 hours to be - there are many other such cases. So you are unlikely to get 25hrs 1:1a under section 19 provision. This is why appealing the EHCP is important.

I would submit an appeal ASAP. The LA is unlikely to agree to an early review when the EHCP has only just been finalised. Even if they do, it is unlikely to change the EHCP sufficiently. In the highly unlikely event the LA agrees to a review and make all the required amendments, they can concede the appeal.

My suggestion right now is to a) submit an appeal ASAP, b) start thinking about your evidence, and c) ask the LA how they intend to ensure DS receives a suitable full-time education in light of him being unable to attend school.

As to your last question, it isn’t possible to comment on whether attempting reintegration would be helpful to DS, but definitely speak to the school.

Oh and we have so many independent assessments that highlight the need for mentoring, 1:1 support to leave the hours etc so the evidence is there.
i can probably get more to show how well he was doing at HOP to further highlight the need for this approach.

is it worth attempting a plan with school to reintegrate so if it’s not working we have evidence of that as well?

I have already followed up with the LA asking how they will ensure a 25 hour week education given he can’t access school and also asked for an urgent review given then have removed a vital layer of support that he was already receiving and has now been cut, that has been enabling him to access social support and leave the house. This is likely to have an immediate affect on his wellbeing.

any thoughts on the likelihood of getting an urgent review and the provision reinstated at this stage or do the you recommend starting the appeal process straight away?

any advice on what to do practically in the meantime, I’m incredibly worried about DS and gutted as he’s lost a lifeline. I’m going to monitor his wellbeing daily and keep a record, is there anything else I can do whilst the appeal is going through to access more support?

@Lelivre the LA is well over timescales. Email the Director of Children’s Services reminding them they are in breach and if they do not act, you will be forced to take matters further. If that doesn’t prompt action, you need a pre-action letter.

You are likely to still need physio and OT advice and information sought during the EHCNA. While all information/evidence should be considered, NHS physio and OT from normal appointments are unlikely to be sufficient because they rarely cover needs, provision and outcomes and are often not detailed, specified and quantified. So, whilst they can be considered, they will often mean the content of the EHCP is poor. So further advice and information from physio and OT is likely to be required.

Paeds can contribute. Someone with DD’s presentation needs their input into the NA.

As well as the DCS, I would email the DMO/DCO. ETA: sorry, DMO is Designated Medical Officer and DCO is Designated Medical Officer.

@LittlePickleHead you might want to report your post to MNHQ, you have left DS’s name in your posts.

You need to appeal. To do that, you first need to request a mediation certificate. The mediation company’s contact details should be in the letter from the LA. I wouldn’t bother with mediation, just get the certificate and submit to SENDIST.

Once you have the mediation certificate, submit that, the decision letter, the SEND35 form, the EHCP (and any appendices you have. Don’t worry if you don’t have them all, just submit what you have) and your evidence to SENDIST.

Consider what further evidence you need. Look at independent assessments. If you can’t afford these and you aren’t eligible for legal aid (or rather than legal help system for appeals), which can fund independent assessments if necessary, look at charity funding, e.g. Parents in Need.

I would submit SARs but not quite yet because I would want to capture data after you have submitted the appeal.

Alongside this, remind the LA DS is unable to attend school and ask the LA how they intend to ensure he receives a suitable full-time education.

Providers shouldn’t be named in F, but that is the least of the problems.

Also I've realised they have named both the online tutors and the school in section F which isn't right?

They are essentially reducing the small amount of provision he is currently able to access. I'm so upset, almost a year of fighting to be in an even worse situation. He's being failed so badly

I'm so upset and stressed. EHCP back and section F is repeated verbatim across all sections "(DS) will remain on roll at XXX School receiving flexi schooling which will be 12 hours of tuition delivered by (online tutor company) for the following subjects; English, Maths
and Science, and remainder of time at school, to be steadily built up to support Frederick."

This doesn't mention HOP at all which makes me think he will lose access to the mentor and in person club which is the way he is making progress at the moment and the only way he has social interaction. He can't make it into school AT ALL so all he has is 12 hours of tuition?

Please help me understand what I need to do next, this is going to have a devastating impact on DS and the progress he has made

@keepitspinningthanks for this! I will give it some thought. She is under paediatrics and she has just had another physio review and I’ve asked for another OT (physical health) this is outside of ehcna as I was sick of waiting and we are struggling so much with school and GCSE’s.

I would like a paediatrician to feed directly in on the physical side of symptom management and school (chronic issues), I have requested this but no one responded. I could ask her NHS paed but you know how stretched everyone is!

i also asked for SLT.

Please advise, whats the best way to nudge the LA when the EHCNA is about to progress (with ed psych)? They agreed to assess end of Nov and so they are perhaps in breach of timescales already.

@Lelivre LA EP assessments are often poor. IMO a comprehensive assessment including full cognitive testing, not just WISC, is helpful. If you have evidence WISC in particular has been advised, I would go back to the LA and EP to point this out.

However, if you seek an independent EP assessment, you should look for someone who can write medico-legal standard reports in case you need to appeal. Unless you are lucky with a cancellation, which do crop up, you will not have a report by the time the LA need to decide whether to issue or not, especially at this time of year with phase transfer appeals. Unless money is no object, I would save your money in case you need to appeal. This is because you may decide the LA EP assessment will do, not brilliant but enough, and you need to target your money at e.g. OT or physio or SALT or…

@AprilFlowersMaythank you for the comment. I’ve gone back to this question so many times over the years, looking for an explanation. We also had an appointment with someone who assesses girls for ASC separate to the psychologist.

I think I am at a point where I agree she is not on the ASC spectrum, but I appreciate your comment and observations, thank you. There were times when I almost wished for this so we could understand, support and strategise, accordingly.

@Lelivre I can't offer any informed advice about WISC-V but am interested that the ASC was dismissed by clin psych and was wondering whether your DC was assessed (in which case obviously accept that outcome) or that the clin psych decided there wasn't enough evidence to assess (and, do you agree?). I have three kids who are ASD and they all present as you describe your DC and "the system" (from the time they were in Y7 when I was flagging likely ASC, although I knew from when they were 5) said that they couldn't be because they are reasonably socially adept and (most importantly) were doing very well academically. In all three cases the wheels came off on the health front first (and one is now diagnosed with CFS). We eventually got them assessed privately. If you are going to pay for something privately and your DC hasn't been assessed I might choose to invest there.

Hi all, a question about EHCNA and full cognitive testing. We are finally near the top of the queue for Ed Psych. Full cognitive testing won’t be offered.

I’m therefore wondering - would WISC-V be helpful given our situation. EHCNA won’t resource full cognitive testing and it has been advised by one of the clinicians in a detailed report a year ago.

Do we pay for it privately? Is it worth it? For a possibly G&T child prone to burnout (ASC dismissed by clinical psychologist) with background of physical health issues too impacting stamina.

DD's school 6th form timetables pshe /rshe separately. She is disapplied from that lesson as ASD affects her ability to understand or engage at the same level as other students. It is instead covered as part of the 1 to 1 sessions she does, using the topics as a starting point for whatever they are trying to work on. I think the fact that the teachers really struggled when she questioned everything they taught in yr10 in every lesson! From explaining how peer pressure works to why people get stressed, they really didn't know how to answer questions that are not normally asked... So we all agreed it was better for all for her not to be in the lessons 🙂

Welcome @AprilFlowersMay. The Tribunal decision should fall in your favour. If it doesn’t, from what you have said, you need someone to look over the decision and case. The LA is applying an unlawful test. That test is the same for 16 year olds who are post 16 as it is for CSA pupils. For an RtA appeal, you do not need to prove the setting can’t meet needs. Besides, if DD can’t attend full-time, the school can’t meet needs.

@Phineyj at the minute, RSE/RSHE (rather than the wider scope of PSHE) is compulsory for schools with sixth forms (but not colleges. Although many colleges do provide it and there has been a push for a while to make it mandatory.), individual reasonable adjustments can still be made. In many cases, that will be adjustments to how it is delivered within the classroom, but it could be not delivered during tutor time at all where that is the reasonable adjustment that is needed.

@Mumoftwo23 I have replied to you on your thread under a different name. I don’t want you to think I am ignoring you. Be aware, many have to appeal to get an independent placement. Even if you don’t have to appeal, if you haven’t even requested an early review yet, you may not have a finalised amended EHCP by the start of the next academic year. An amended EHCP can take 12 weeks from the review meeting, but LAs regularly breach this timescale and even if you force their hand, it may well be longer than the time left before the start of Y4.

He’s in year 3. Hoping for change of placement for year 4 if it goes in our favour! My eldest was an extremely high masker and then became mentally unwell. I don’t want to predict problems that aren’t there and of course they’re different children but equally I now can see the pattern and don’t want a repeat!

I think if she keeps on top of academic work and therefore tests well, they may overlook attendance. How many hours is she supposed to be in? How are her test results this year? How is she doing socially?

(Don't feel you have to answer these questions but they're what I would be wondering if she were one of my tutees).

I thought tutor time was compulsory because PHSE is often delivered during it, but @KeepItSpinning or another knowledgeable poster said once that missing it could be a reasonable adjustment.

My school is pretty relaxed about students going off site/home during free periods, but most students live very close by, which helps. They do have supervised study twice a week though.

@Mumoftwo23 what year is your DS in? Aside from my kiddo who isn’t really in school atm I have two other diagnosed ASD kids and they masked at a high price through school so really feel you.

@Phineyj she’s actually doing ok academically for the most part (doing special interest subjects): and if the LA and school stay off our backs regarding how little she attends and lets her take her exams when the time comes we’ll be ok, but so far no-one really knows what to do with her: LA say school haven’t proved that they can’t meet need but she can’t cope with more than 2 hours a day in school and all the legal stuff is really fuzzy for post 16. I should have pushed so much harder when she stopped attending in Y9 but hindsight is 20/20 …

@DP97 like @KeepItSpinning wondered at your motives: doesn’t feel like you are here to give or receive support….

Has anyone experienced anything like this before? Child’s Ehcp was finalised last year. School said it could meet needs. I noticed most of the provision was happening, finally got a meeting and the senco told me the ehcp was over the top and my child didn’t need half of what’s on it. So they just ignored majority of ehcp. They said my child is meeting all the out comes which I do agree but it comes at an emotional cost and I think the outcomes were possibly too low on hindsight. My child has increasing anxiety about attending school. In the surface he seems ok as he masks highly, which I suspect is why school thinks he doesn’t warrant the provision. He is 2.5 years behind age related expectations, ASD, adhd, struggles with executive function among other things. Can be pretty avoidant. However has friends and does well socially, and “ok” on the surface. I’m going to call an early annual review and try to get an independent school named. School is adamant they can meet needs and that I’m an over the top parent. Also my child is well behaved in school, no SEMH other than anxiety. Any advice or experience with similar? Thanks in advance

How are her A-levels going @AprilFlowersMay ? I'm an A-level teacher (Economics) and form tutor if that's any help at all.

Why do you want to know? This post, the thread you started on here and your posts elsewhere make it look like you are asking for some kind of research or for an article of some sort.

Will this be enough to prove the need for EOTIS?

It is about quality of evidence rather than quantity. You need evidence it is inappropriate for provision to be made in a school. For some, what you describe would be enough. For others, it wouldn’t. It depends on what is written in the evidence.

Getting agreement to leave I blank for EOTAS/EOTIS is only part of the process. Looking at the content of package is another. You are likely to need further evidence for a proper EOTAS/EOTIS package.

If the EP and psychiatrist are not available before the AR, can we submit their evidence afterwards?

The AR meeting is only one part of the AR process. If you have further evidence after the meeting but still during the AR process, you can submit further evidence. After the conclusion of the AR process, if you have to appeal, you can use the new evidence for that. If you don’t appeal, you can ask the LA to consider it/request another AR, but there’s no guarantee the LA will agree.

Am I correct that the LA must respond to the AR within four weeks, and, if they agree to amend, they must issue a finalised EHCP within 8 weeks (so 12 weeks total from the date of the AR)?

From the date of the AR meeting, yes. The AR is a process rather than just the meeting. The AR meeting is only one part of the AR process.

DH and I are starting (with input from DS) to map out what we think would work for him as part of EOTIS provision. Do we need to have this completely ready at the AR?

I am assuming you mean the AR meeting when you say AR. No; you don’t need it all for them. Having as much evidence and information as possible prior to the meeting will help, but you can submit further evidence after the meeting and if the LA propose to amend, you will get the chance to comment on the proposed amendments.