EHCP support thread no. 6

@KeepItSpinning Thank you 🙂 Just when you think the hard bit is done for now... Who does APD referrals?

I did a few months ago ask SENDIST to direct the LA to conduct additional assessments (including clinical psychologist) however they refused.

I had previously checked the OT referral system and they only accept referrals from educational or health professionals. I think GP might be easier than school. (Kept promising they would do an OT sensory referral tumbleweed)

Can I check, when I do the updated case review form, under the What are the outstanding issues section, do I literally just put something like I consider provision needs to be made in line with an EHCP, which is opposed by the LA? Or should I also outline what the main discrepancies are? (Eg the LA considers DD to have no C&L needs! When she has dyslexia, dysgraphia, lexical access deficits, VMI weakness and pretty much a six-year gap between her reading comprehension and writing output).

You have a few options for psychiatrist &/or CP input.

1. You could request another referral back to CAMHS rather than the PCN MHP. You can use the EP report as evidence of need. Then complain if refused.
2. You could request the LA seeks the advice as part of the EHCP process. However, they may well try to refuse. Even if they do seek it, it may not be good.
3. You could seek an independent assessment. Then, when you secure an EHCP, use that to inform the EHCP/appeal. However, think ahead. You may still have another appeal ahead of you after the RTI appeal. You may need updated EP &/or OT reports or addenda. You may need a SALT report. So think ahead, otherwise you risk costs spiralling.

@handmademitlove @KeepItSpinning

Thank you both, really helpful.

I was actually going to also ask about Snowfields; a family member goes there. However, she is not academic.

The EP also said that she needed a proper evaluation by a psychiatrist or a clinical psychologist to determine whether her obsessive compulsive rituals are actually OCD or manifestations of the ASD. She had had an online appointment with a mental health practitioner at CAMHS who after consulting with "the team" concluded that because she wasn't in crisis, discharged to community mental health practitioner team. She's had two appointments with them so far (and two been cancelled 🙄), which, frankly have been as useful as a chocolate teapot.

How would that be progressed?

@Namechange857 from what you have posted, I don’t think Laleham Gap or somewhere like Snowfields will be able to meet DD’s needs. Presumably the OT didn’t if he recommended independent SS or a unit.

For OT related needs/provision, the OT report will be more valuable than the EP report will be.

For APD, if you can get a referral to Prof. Doris-Eva Bamiou at UCL, she is at the top of her field and her evidence is very helpful at Tribunal.

Many have to appeal to get support. I have 2 DSs with provision for APD, including ToD support, in their EHCPs, but they only have that because we appealed then enforced the provision. My LA still disagrees, but their opinion is irrelevant. They can huff and puff and mutter about not having an HI in their opinion all they like.

For DCD, it depends on the local pathway. I am not in your LA, so check, but I believe in East Kent you need a referral to the OT service (having jumped through hoops) who will then refer to community paeds where necessary.

@Namechange857 Auditory Processing Disorder requires a referral to one of the few specialist centres that can diagnose APD. Have a look at the APD support UK website for referral details. We went to UCLH and they were great. Be aware that many LA sensory support teams won't support APD!

@KeepItSpinning Thank you again for the advice.

Yes, that's what I thought. The EP calculated her FSIQ to be 116, her fluid reasoning was 123 and reading comprehension 121. There were a couple of non-verbal reasoning subset scores on the 98th percentile.

Obviously her mental health is more important than academics. But not being supported academically could also cause issues.

What's your view on Laleham Gap?

So with regards to OT, he identified aspects himself eg in relation to sensory seeking and visual motor integration, but otherwise extensively quoted and referred to the OT's report. He took the provision recommendation from there too.

He stated that in his opinion DD would meet the threshold for a DCD diagnosis, but deferred that to paediatrics/OT for an assessment. He also recommended an auditory processing assessment. Out of interest, how would those two things be followed up?

Unless there is a good reason reports longer than 15 pages are necessary, don’t submit the longer reports. If there is good reason why additional pages are required in your case, you will need to submit a SEND7 requesting they allow the longer reports, which may or may not be agreed.

If DD may even remotely be OK academically in a grammar school, a problem you would have finding a special/specialist school is the academics. Depending on where you are in East Kent, you could look at Ripplevale and Great Oaks Small school. However, while these offer more academics than many, they aren’t at the level of a mainstream school.

While the EP can say OT input and further advice and information is required, they cannot make detailed comments on needs/provision outside of their remit. I hope they have done the former, not the latter, otherwise SENDIST is likely to raise an eyebrow.

@KeepItSpinning Thank you so much. So I have SENDIST-compliant 15-page reports from both the EP and OT. But they have also both sent extended versions. Just wondered if I needed to send those as well or just the 15-page reports.

I can't remember the date the appeal was registered, but I have an extended evidence deadline of next Fri and I have just checked the tribunal order and it says evidence needs to be sent to both the tribunal and the other party.

We haven't looked around any schools yet, and I know they all differ but my instinct is against a mainstream unit over either type of school. I imagine there's some that are run well, but they do strike me as an isolated add on as opposed to an inclusive environment.

I think if an EHCP is granted, another appeal would probably be needed for SS. The OT only recommends an independent SS or a mainstream unit. And although the EP recommends lots of individual provision (eg 1:1 SpLd tutor, OT, emotion and MH support), I think the LA could easily argue for mainstream.

Getting ahead of myself, but we're in East Kent; not even sure there are any nearby SS that would suit DD's profile?

@Ponche of course you can.

@KeepItSpinning would it be okay if PM you?

The AR meeting is just one part of the AR process.

Were your views and wishes sought prior to the AR meeting? They should have been. Did you raise the amendments that are required during the AR meeting? You should have, but don’t panic if you didn’t. The report circulated following AR meeting shouldn’t be all one-sided. All PoVs should be recorded. Sadly, some schools don’t do this. When you receive the report, if it doesn’t, contact the LA.

If the LA propose to amend, you will get the opportunity to propose any amendments when you receive the amendment notice/notice of amendment/draft (whatever you want to call it).

@KeepItSpinning thanks so much for the clarification re. funding.

Annual review was this week, shall I wait for the LA decision notice before suggesting amendments? School are suggesting amendments so not sure if I should try and add mine to the same document?

Reports need to comply with the practice directions, so they need to be a maximum of 15 pages.

If there is good reason why additional pages are required in your case, you can request SENDIST accepts further pages via a SEND7. However, permission isn’t guaranteed.

Whether you submit the reports to SENDIST as well as the LA depends on when your appeal was registered. The documentation you received from SENDIST will tell you. Previously, you submitted evidence to SENDIST at the same time as you sent it to the LA. The new directions (although contradictory) differ and you just send to your LA. So it depends on if your appeal is under the new or old rules.

I would think very carefully about MS if DD struggles with the sensory environment &/or demands of primary school. For many, secondary can be so much more overwhelming in that regard. Bases/units/RPs vary in how they run. One way they vary is in how much integration with mainstream lessons they expect. For some, they don’t work because ultimately they are still part of the overwhelming mainstream environment with all the demands that entails.

Hi all. We have now had a draft EP report back for our refusal to issue EHCP appeal. It's really comprehensive and it really encapsulates everything. He is clear that DD9's (AuDHD with sensory modulation challenges) needs are pervasive across all four areas of the SEND CoP, her structural communication ability hides narrative discourse deficits, she has word-finding difficulties, significant sensory issues, emerging OCD tendencies, extensively internalises/masks, is "significantly underachieving" at school and that there is a high likelihood that without the provision outlined, she will return to last year's state of burnout (where we struggled significantly with EBSA).

He has also diagnosed dyslexia and dysgraphia and that in his view she is likely to meet the threshold for DCD. She has a very high reading comprehension level (92nd percentile), but average word decoding (66th percentile) and bordering on low average spelling (27th percentile).

He also states that despite a high average IQ (with fluid reasoning being very high range and one of the non-verbal reasoning subsets being on 98th percentile), her written work is at year 3 level (she is year 5 and her teachers say she is at "age-expected" levels 🤔).

For both the OT and EP assessments, we have both the full-length report and the 15-page summaries. Do we send both to the tribunal/LA or just the summaries?

I am also wondering (worrying) about what sort of secondary school would be the most suitable.

We are in a grammar school area (top 25% rather than super-selective) and DD wants to take the 11+ (though how much of that is down to peer discussion..). However whilst she is obviously cognitively able (though no guarantee that she would pass), I wonder if the academic pressure would be too much.

However, I am unsure if any of the huge, busy comprehensives would be suitable (and I think her needs could get lost amongst those with more external-presenting needs, as has been the case at primary).

The OT's view was that due to the EBSA history, DD would not cope in mainstream (apart from in a separate base). However I wonder how much is because she has not had her needs met (or even identified in the case of the SpLd).

Would be really grateful for anyone's experience or thoughts.

To prepare for the AR meeting, go through the advice and information that should have been circulated by now. Make sure it is accurate. Reports should cover needs, recommendations for ongoing provision (including the strategies and approaches that work and what doesn’t work), and outcomes. It should also cover progress. Then also go through any other evidence you have and the existing EHCP. This will help you know in advance what needs raising, what amendments are required and the evidence to support any changes that are needed/support not amending the elements that don’t need amending. It is worth making a list of anything else you want to mention and any questions you have too.

We have our first AR meeting this week. Any suggestions or advice going into it?

DS (Y8) is doing pretty well in his SS setting, though we've been told he's been increasingly vocal about teachers and classes he doesn't like and has been asking for a lot of movement breaks. Overall, though, we think the school is working for him and don't think there are massive changes needed to his provision.

That said, is there anything we should be prepared for? AFAIK the LA will not be attending. Thanks.

I wouldn’t bother with mediation. Just get the certificate and submit to SENDIST.

IPSEA and SOSSEN’s websites are good places to start. Also the Noddy guide is a good basic guide to some of the legislation and case law.

Hello all,

I am feeling exhausted and worn down. Is there a hood idiots guide to mediation and tribunal? - I feel the ECHP issued by the LEA doesn’t meet my child’s needs, it’s very wooly and none specific and at times nomiates what other children should do.

I wouldn’t bother with mediation, especially for a BFI appeal and the timescales involved in your case. Just get the certificate and submit to SENDIST ASAP.

Agreed. Would people here advise mediation first or straight to appeal?Would be keen to hear experiences.

@Ratchet101 if you have the final EHCP, you can appeal.

Welcome @Peggyblue. As well as an EP assessment, has other the other advice and information that is required been sought?

Have a look at EOTAS/EOTIS. This is where it is inappropriate for provision to be made in a school or college.

EOTAS/EOTIS can include tuition, but it also includes so much more, including things like therapies, professional time (including for indirect provision even if DD can’t yet engage directly), resources/equipment/tech/a budget, other non-academic provision, etc.

What does DD enjoy doing? Or if she has dropped all interests, what did she previously enjoy doing? Other than the tuition, is DD managing anything (not just academics and not necessarily big things) else currently?

A personal budget can fund provision like tuition. A PB can be funded in different ways. The LA can commission provision directly, a third party can manage the money on the parents’ behalf, parents can have direct payments, or a mixture. Although I wouldn’t make PBs your focus now.

I think we have sent a few - unfortunately because we didn't understand the process (offered a school place and then within days an EHCP draft sent - 20 days before they were due to issue the final plan) and whenever we called the LA for advice they always referred us to our case worker for advice (who would then never take the call or call us back). However we now have the final ehcp...2nd choice school named, gaps in section where needs are highlighted but no outcomes or provisions included, incorrect information and in one point, a different child named in the provision! All were flagged in our comments when we were issued the draft. I don't even know why we bothered with communication at all.

Morning all. It's overwhelming just reading about what others are going through. I take my hat off to so many of you who have been in this for so much longer than us.

We finally have our ed psych meeting for my DD's ECHNA next week. I have from this thread a list of things to think about and make notes on before I speak to them, which I'm very grateful for.

My DD is currently recovering slowly from autistic burnout. She has a tutor under s.19, who she is now able to engage with 4-5 hours a week. She currently can't do much more - but I don't know if this will still be true in 6 months, though I don't imagine she'll be able to access a classroom. She is in year 10.

I know we're probably an appeal/tribunal away from any actual EHCP but, ignoring that, she would like to continue with this same tutor until her GCSEs (assuming she does them next year). Is that the sort of thing that could be written into an EHCP? And I've just been reading the SEND code of practice and seen a mention of personal budgets. I'm wondering if a personal budget that would pay for additional 121 tuition (if she could at some point manage that) would be something to aim for? She really couldn't manage full time education at the moment but I know she has a right to it, which leaves me bamboozled...

How often are you sending emails? Be careful. You don’t want to be accused of sending malicious, vexatious &/or unreasonably persistent communications. Such allegations from LAs are becoming increasingly common and can escalate quickly. I am not saying you are being unreasonable or sending too many emails, but you do now need to be cautious about what and how many you send.