Request to remove the word 'debate' from ' Feminism: Sex & gender debate'

I agree with all the concerns raised on this thread. I am also deeply concerned that a posters experiences of abuse were removed as somehow breaching the rules.
I find it absolutely disgusting that a simple request to remove debate from the title is being ignored by Mumsnet and that this change in title has opened the transwidows to abuse .

What exactly is the motivation to place a particular group of women seeking support in such an exposed position? You are actually inviting the abuse we've seen since this inexplicable decision was made. I've reported a number of abusive posts myself - all since this decision was made.

Who benefits from this? Who suffers? And why are you/MNHQ so intransigent in refusing to reflect & amend what is clearly a huge miscalculation on your part?

Why persist?

It's not exactly in the spirit of Mumsnet's We Believe You campaign, is it?

www.mumsnet.com/campaigns/we-believe-you-mumsnet-rape-awareness-campaign

I can only agree with posters.

I cannot see why anyone would be so intransigently wedded to using the unnecessary word "debate" on a board name.

A betrayal of the trans widows @ MNHQ.

It feels as if Mumsnet's aim to make parents lives easier does not apply if we are the "wrong" sort of feminist, or a trans widow, as this decision has made our lives more difficult.

I've been thinking some more about this.

People don't continuously go onto the Adoption board and spout why adoption is wrong.
People don't continuously go on to Surrogacy and spout why they think surrogacy is wrong.
People don't go onto the pet boards and spout why owning pets is wrong.

MN have put the sex & gender under the feminism topic. Feminism by definition centres women and girls. So why are people being allowed to continuously go there and say the posters are doing feminism wrong by not centring male born people?

I feel if MN what to host 'debate' then it shouldn't be under feminism (and thus threads on this issue from a feminist slant should go back to feminism chat). If they want a special board for feminists to discuss the issue free from harassment then they should remove the word 'debate' and be more firm with posters who consistently come on to random threads derailing them.
It isn't 'no debate' from the feminism side, but rather, when there are so few spaces for feminists to discuss and inform the issues amongst themselves that they/we should be allowed that space here on MN.

Debate implies civil disagreement. There is a poster right now being sneering, accusatory and generally unpleasant all over the board. Dismissing women's opinions and doing a lot of gaslighting.

Was this what you had in mind for the board?
Is this the safe space to discuss gender issues that you envisioned?
Because it seems to me that the mods are very much weighted in one direction. Especially as the rules are so unclear you are not always clear if you are breaking them.

Tweets? I mean comments obviously

@MichaelMumsnet you have literally deleted my tweets detailing how the trans widows are now subject to an open bashing from AGPs like my ex. I lived with male abuse for over a year and I’m being silenced on mumsnet of all places.

Why was my post deleted? @MichaelMumsnet why do you hate us trans widows ?

Influx of very unpleasant posters, being able to ignore the guidelines, using cis as an insult amongst other things.

Why are these few, aggressive posters supposedly ok to act with impunity, being deliberately spiteful, whilst much less is deemed strike worthy?
Also when are you:
A) removing debate
Or b) adding a third gender support area for transwidows and those with personal issues
???
@MichaelMumsnet
@EstherMumsnet

Agree!

Am here to say the same. Very poor response.

Debate should not be in the group header. So, currently, we have “chat” which sounds fairly innocuous and then “debate” which can be taken the wrong way. And we know the multitude of threads that end up in one particular section.

It is not a difficult or onerous change to make, just to the one word at the end of a group title.

Hang on, nothing @ProudExclu said was rude or offensive - she was talking about her own experiences. I take it the misogynistic monitors objected to the factual use of AGP?

Just adding my voice too.

Debate means A vs B. That’s what happens in a debate. Two sides each trying to convince the other.

We don’t want this to be us vs them. We want to talk about implications, nuances, discuss, share experiences.”Debate” makes it seem like we’re looking for an argument - a sort of “trans AIBU”. That is so much not the point. We want to listen as discuss. Debate is totally the wrong word for this topic. Please change it or remove it!

totally agree - the word "debate", when it is not present in any other forum title, invites people to take issue with what is being said. This is really not fair to any of us who might want a discussion, not a debate (yes they are very different things) about the issues - or just support.

You are painting a target on our backs and inviting people to take aim.

Words matter, the meaning of words matters. Debate is the wrong word.

MNHQ did offer to move trans widows to Relationships but I feel that would be a worse option as we'd have to spend a lot of time justifying ourselves and fielding "it's just clothes" comments.

@Thelnebriati

That's one of the worst responses I've seen from Mumsnet. It doesn't answer the points we raised; and as far as the comments about the Trans Widow threads go, you aren't doing us a favour or giving us anything we've asked for.

I find the inclusion of the word 'debate' to be goady. Feminists dared to say 'yes a debate' in response to the TRA's insistence that trans 'rights' are not up for debate. Well that taught us, didn't it.

None of the other boards use the word 'debate' or 'discussion' because thats what they are, by default.

@MichaelMumsnet please read the title, then the thread, and try again.