Mumsnet moderation of trans rights and gender critical issues II

Yes.

And if you are unable to avoid despite it having such a severe affect on your mental health, that suggests prior mental health issues.

Exactly. There are sadly many instances in life where it is extremely difficult to avoid coming up against opinions and values that are deeply contrary to your own. Online fora are, happily, very easy to avoid.

If an online forum raises issues that make you feel very distressed, the best thing is to walk away. It is easily done.

Very strange that you would engage to the point of becoming suicidal.

If an online forum raises issues that make you feel very distressed, the best thing is to walk away. It is easily done.

OK will work something up and be back to post link :)

There is a male trans person on twitter claiming that Mumsnet made them suicidal, and talking of the threats of legal action that (this person) then gave

While I sincerely hope the person in question remains healthy and can access appropriate support for their issues, I am concerned about the parallels here to coercive control and also the way suicide is being weaponised by some parties.

The giving of puberty blockers for example is leveraged (I’m sorry, hate the term but it is appropriate here) by having the alternative as the patient will kill themselves otherwise. It has to be, because these are incredibly powerful drugs and no ethics body in their right mind would approve giving them to children unless the benefits outweighed the risks. Since the risks are so high, only death can be used as the leverage point. 80% of children questioning gender identity end up reconciled with it. It is unethical to treat 100% of such a population.
But when we examine the suicide stats which are so widely publicised we see that they have been debunked.

And so we are led to the uncomfortable conclusion that perhaps the threat of suicide is being used by pressure groups as a tactic to force hands and actions.

Of course many women on here will be familiar with that as an MO of abusive men in general.

So I hope the person in question is making a full recovery and has support. At the same time and speaking in a general and hypothetical manner about Boone in particular, I do not accept that an online forum like MN alone can drive anyone to suicidal ideation and I would if I was a lawyer in such a hypothetical situation be exploring the possibility of vexatious litigation as a defence.

I’m also saddened at the amount of linguistic wriggle I had to put in there, but such is life.

It's like a version of the Roman Catholic Index of forbidden texts:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_Librorum_Prohibitorum

Also wondering if MNHQ is dead to shame.

SpartacusAutisticus that is an amazing post, thank you it has clarified so many things for me

MNHQ - we need to know what terms to use - don't want to accidentally break the rules.

woman sounds good - please do start it :)

There is a male trans person on twitter claiming that Mumsnet made them suicidal, and talking of the threats of legal action that (this person) then gave

I have nil fucks to give about anyone who says anyone "makes" them feel anything. I despise it when it's posted on MN. Lazy thinking that ascribes responsibility to others for your feelings.

Still reading but wanted to take issue with Super Dandy invoking me as saying the guidance is workable.

It's workable for me. Because my priority is to expose the sexism in the ideology. I can't do that if I'm banned.

I understand, and admire, women who refuse to sacrifice anything in order to stay.

Believe me, one of the biggest things I've learnt as a result of this issue is self restraint.

It is an outrageous and profoundly sexist move to claim you cannot call men, men. On an anonymous Internet forum!

Just because I have grimly decided to attempt to work within the guidance, doesn't mean I agree with. I don't. And never will.

woman - that’s great and please start the thread!

That would be really helpful for most people who are new to the issue because they tend to think transwoman means a woman who has transitioned rather than a male.

Yes this has been my experience when talking to people in real life. They get worked up about how people are wanting to stop 'transwomen' from using female areas, and they are all like 'but transwomen ARE female' and it turns out they think transwomen are actually transmen.

woman sounds excellent.

I’m very glad cis has gone though. Awful term

I am half-tempted to just keep using 'transwomen (and by transwomen I mean people who are biologically male)' every single time. It's lengthy but it's clear, accurate and shows the linguistic hoops we have to jump through

I use transwoman, however I do think this would be the best way for people to be factual while not using TIM. It is lengthy, but given MN stance on being able to accurately talk about biology, it cannot be deemed against the rules, surely?

There is a male trans person on twitter claiming that Mumsnet made them suicidal, and talking of the threats of legal action that (this person) then gave. Apparently they managed to contact both Mumsnet and their MP while feeling suicidal. This seems to be why we can’t use the term TIM anymore ? Apologies if this has been covered already, the thread is so long I have missed bits.

It doesn’t say that in the link?

Wait - we can't say "transwoman"? What the fuck are we meant to say?

Really?! I hadn’t understood that either.

Bowl, woman, beyond, fortunate

How about "Taking it out on your body - exploring possible roots"

Wait - we can't say "transwoman"? What the fuck are we meant to say?

I am half-tempted to just keep using 'transwomen (and by transwomen I mean people who are biologically male)' every single time.

That would be really helpful for most people who are new to the issue because they tend to think transwoman means a woman who has transitioned rather than a male.

I'm rather enjoying this aspect of the thread as I'm teaching "Nineteen Eight-Four" and "Stasiland", both pertinent texts when applied to what MNHQ is kow-towing to.