Page 40 | Mumsnet moderation of trans rights and gender critical issues

(1000 Posts)
JustineMumsnet (MNHQ) Wed 13-Jun-18 09:31:33

Hi all,
We've given lots of thought to our moderation policies around trans rights and sex and gender issues and thought it would be a good idea to articulate where we stand in the form of a clear statement, so everyone can be clear about our moderation going forward. You can find it here. Hope it provides a helpful reference point. Thanks.

OP’s posts: |
RippleEffects Wed 13-Jun-18 22:44:47

*Mumsnet will always stand in solidarity with vulnerable or oppressed minorities.*

I think I understand the sentiment but surely sometimes an oppressed minority is oppressed because society at large doesn't want to adopt a particular group as normalised behaviour i.e.terrorists or freedom fighters. Both would no doubt claim to be oppressed minorities.

Mumsnet has always been amazing for allowing debates to get quite heated - we need this to be a developed society, but we need a neutrality of stance in moderation don't we?

I haven't posted on the feminism threads but I'm fascinated and scared in equal meassure by what's happening. I'm now at the stage I'm not sure what I'm allowed to post even here, so my speech is no longer free. Debate is repressed.

TimeLady Wed 13-Jun-18 22:44:51

Perhaps we should start again by stopping talking about transitioning altogether and use the verb 'regender':

To assign a new gender to (a person, role, etc.)

en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/regender

Thus RXYP = a regendered XY person
and RXXP = a regendered XX person.

No mention of trans or man or woman and factually correct.

thebewilderness Wed 13-Jun-18 22:45:35

* SupermatchGame Wed 13-Jun-18 22:41:07 It's not a Stonewall forum though is it. It's Mumsnet.*

DUH

Beachcomber Wed 13-Jun-18 22:46:37

Not really SupermatchGame as no male can transition to female.

It isn't biologically or scientifically possible you see.

thebewilderness Wed 13-Jun-18 22:47:19

Mumsnet will always stand in solidarity with vulnerable or oppressed minorities.

This is an insulting lie.

SupermatchGame Wed 13-Jun-18 22:47:20

Male to female is a lie

Even if they have legally transitioned? That is still a fact even if you personally disagree with a 'legal fiction'.

but if they want to say they are now feminine, would this be acceptable?

Not necessarily - some m2fs do not present as particularly 'feminine' or see themselves as 'feminine'.

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mancheeze Wed 13-Jun-18 22:48:10

Maybe we should just keep TIM, TIF, TERF and cis? And everyone can lump it all round?

I'm in full agreement, but that's because I believe in freedom of speech and the ability to completely argue for/against any subject. I have confidence in my arguments, and I don't like censorship.

If a man wants to call women 'TERFS', let him. It says more about him than anything ever could, especially since it's a slur usually combined with graphic violent threats.

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth Wed 13-Jun-18 22:49:43

Watching while we are being converted to the good side......

Loopytiles Wed 13-Jun-18 22:49:59

“But if thought corrupts language, language can also corrupt thought”

George Orwell, 1984

I am

SupermatchGame Wed 13-Jun-18 22:51:20

use the verb 'regender':

Why not go the whole hog and use the word Regenerate

Where's TimeLady when you need her.

JoanSummers Wed 13-Jun-18 22:51:24

some m2fs do not present as particularly 'feminine' or see themselves as 'feminine'

Shh noone tell SMG why their post is transphobic wink

mancheeze Wed 13-Jun-18 22:51:48

*Male to female is a lie

Even if they have legally transitioned? That is still a fact even if you personally disagree with a 'legal fiction'.

but if they want to say they are now feminine, would this be acceptable?

Not necessarily - some m2fs do not present as particularly 'feminine' or see themselves as 'feminine'.*

That sums up neatly why biological sex is so important. It's a material, testable classification of a person. Of course women disagree with the legal fiction that is the GRA, and we've made excellent arguments as to why gender identity is a nonsense concept.

Beachcomber Wed 13-Jun-18 22:52:41

SupermatchGame, the law is an ass.

It is not biologically or scientifically possible for a male human to become female and vice versa.

We all know it to be true. Hence the politics.

loveyouradvice Wed 13-Jun-18 22:53:19

I think it's got to be transgender male or male transperson to stay being accurate - and inclusive - and not hijacking the word woman - esp. ally since not all.... crossdressers are some of the most challenging for self-id.....

loveyouradvice Wed 13-Jun-18 22:54:58

And truscum good to see you on here as a TIM..... love having you as part of any discussion....

mancheeze Wed 13-Jun-18 22:55:37

Side note:
Blanchard tweeted this today in response to all the TA's claiming that biological sex is a 'spectrum'

twitter.com/BlanchardPhD/status/1006876687680851969

PermissionToSpeakSir Wed 13-Jun-18 22:55:49

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/3277316-Mumsnet-moderation-of-trans-rights-and-gender-critical-issues-II

Part II thread here

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Wed 13-Jun-18 22:55:55

Even if they have legally transitioned? That is still a fact even if you personally disagree with a 'legal fiction'.

Fact is not the same as fiction hmm

Fact is that a man cannot become a woman. No matter what legal fictions are in place.

Loopytiles Wed 13-Jun-18 22:56:08

Spartacus.

NotBadConsidering Wed 13-Jun-18 22:56:32

So the thread is almost full. All sorted then?!grin

loveyouradvice Wed 13-Jun-18 22:56:41

flowersflowersflowers

Mumsnet we need you to stay strong now more than ever ... and perhaps to reflect that it is not only minorities that are vulnerable or oppressed..... that perhaps the women and girls need you more now than ever

*Mumsnet will always stand in solidarity with vulnerable or oppressed minorities.*

Bespin Wed 13-Jun-18 22:56:54

smile

LangCleg Wed 13-Jun-18 22:57:14

Not using women's terminology for people who are not women. Because people can't change sex. End of.

PermissionToSpeakSir Wed 13-Jun-18 22:57:20

Thread part II

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/3277316-Mumsnet-moderation-of-trans-rights-and-gender-critical-issues-II

Rufustheyawningreindeer Wed 13-Jun-18 22:57:28

Yeah i think we're done not

Its as clear as mud

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