Mumsnet moderation of trans rights and gender critical issues II

twitter.com/666_Angell/status/1007006104147189762

This is who you are siding with, KateMumsnet. This is who you're sticking up for, and sparing the feelings of.

Over the women and mothers on your forum.

I've been deleted for being "pretty rude" about the MNHQ moderators. No explanation, natch, but as I've been unequivocal in my drawing attention to MNHQ's , ahem, CAUTION, in not putting this thread in Trending, and as a long time single username member, I'm worth squashing.

This post won't last long, I'm betting.

If MN sanctions that some males are allowed to identify out of this pattern recognition at their say so and even claim to be one of us (the female class oppressed by the class to which they belong) and bars us at that point from any further discussion about their male pattern behaviours - then MN are saying we cannot discuss feminism.

YY

Go on then, Kate - give me such a term that does not involve coercing me to use terminology for the female sex.

There is no such term and gaslighting us into pretending that there is abusive of your gender critical users.

This is outrageous.

I am not using any terminology belonging to the female sex to refer to people who are not of the female sex. End of.

This is the gender critical position. You just banned it.

Exactly this. Plus some expletives.

in our household we say “trans person born with a penis” and “trans person born with a vagina” and variations on that theme (testicles, uterus). On the basis that the lowest common denominator is that trans people as a group are self-identifying as a gender that is different to that of their biological sex.

oh user I love you.... I hate the games we are having to play but love the way you play them so well.... I'm following you!

in our household we say “trans person born with a penis” and “trans person born with a vagina” and variations on that theme (testicles, uterus). On the basis that the lowest common denominator is that trans people as a group are self-identifying as a gender that is different to that of their biological sex. ....

oh user I love you.... I hate the games we are having to play but love the way you play them so well.... I'm following you!

Pretty sure at this point mumsnet are in breach of the Equality Act.

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/discrimination-in-the-provision-of-goods-and-services/discrimination-in-the-provision-of-goods-and-services1/identifying-discrimination-in-the-provision-of-goods-and-services/discrimination-in-the-provision-of-goods-and-services-what-s-the-unfair-treatment/

I find transwomen hideously offensive.

The term we use for someone born male cannot hang on someone elses, as in my sex.

We all know what the word woman means, its not complicated.

AllyMcBeagle - in our household we say “trans person born with a penis” and “trans person born with a vagina” and variations on that theme (testicles, uterus). On the basis that the lowest common denominator is that trans people as a group are self-identifying as a gender that is different to that of their biological sex.

I think MNHQ have said references to genitals are out though generally, and I think if they aren't happy with mentioning people's biological and legal sex at birth, they definitely won't be happy with mentioning people's sex organs at birth!!

I don’t think transpeople have any place at all in single sex spaces or services.

Thank you SpartacusAutisticus.
I half wondered whether to report my post and ask about reasonable adjustments, but I won't, because this affects all women, and rsporting for the sake of my individual right isn't enough. It would be similar to Magdalen Burns' latest YouTube video where an employee appeals on the basis of trans rights to not wear the regressive and uncomfortable uniform, rather than simply calling her employers out for sexism.

spartacusautisticas.... I had never realised this... nor thought it through.... and thank you for helping me understand.... I feel deeply threatened by this current assault, as a woman and for all women..... I cannot imagine the pain it is causing you given all that women with autism have gained, and oh so recently, and to see that under threat....

I don’t use “transwoman” or “transman”. Trans person is fine.

Not when discussing single sex spaces and services, it isn't.

This is fucking ridiculous. I'll have to step away from the keyboard before I have a rage stroke.

I'm not autistic or uneducated, but I've no idea what's allowed now. I hope the national press pick up on this censorship.

Go on then, Kate - give me such a term that does not involve coercing me to use terminology for the female sex.

There is no such term and gaslighting us into pretending that there is abusive of your gender critical users.

This is outrageous.

I am not using any terminology belonging to the female sex to refer to people who are not of the female sex. End of.

This is the gender critical position. You just banned it.

^This. 100%.

AllyMcBeagle - in our household we say “trans person born with a penis” and “trans person born with a vagina” and variations on that theme (testicles, uterus). On the basis that the lowest common denominator is that trans people as a group are self-identifying as a gender that is different to that of their biological sex.

So the words man and woman may only be used about trans people when they specifically refer to the literal opposite of their actual sex?
AKA lie or be banned?

'Transwoman' is fine because you're ceding ground with 'woman' in it. What if, in conversations discussing women and transwomen, we refer to women as a group's biological sex by using the word 'women'? Is that prohibited now due to it quite clearly highlighting that transwomen are not women, i.e. their sex is not female?

to be clear .... if transwoman was where we knew demands would stop - which is what I had envisaged until recently - I would happily use it as a term.....

I am not however ready to be a pawn in a long game which sees transwoman as starting to appropriate womanhood

We'd much prefer it though, if you found ways to refer to trans people as a group which don't refer to natal sex, and as we move forward with moderating according to the new guidelines, we're likely to delete terms which do.

Oh my giddy aunt.

Go on then, Kate - give me such a term that does not involve coercing me to use terminology for the female sex.

There is no such term and gaslighting us into pretending that there is abusive of your gender critical users.

This is outrageous.

I am not using any terminology belonging to the female sex to refer to people who are not of the female sex. End of.

This is the gender critical position. You just banned it.

I know you think you are being reasonable @MNHQ. But I am experiencing it as crazy making, both the Orwellian nature of being unable to state objective facts, and the lack of clarity you’re providing about what is and what is not acceptable. It’s really distressing

user I agree... I will be using transperson most of the time.... although it is not clear which sex it relates to it is good enough.... and when we then talk about concerns about our 13 year old daughters meeting a transperson with a penis in our changing rooms it is clear what we mean....

I have just realised that, although there is no sex-identifier within it, that whenever one talks about transsexuals, which was common parlance until recently, everyone assumed male -which almost all of them were....

diane although I agree with your seahorse approach - which is where I was just 24 hours ago ... I am now realising that it is a very slippery slope and given that for the TRAs we realise the end game is annihilation of women as a sex, I think transwomen is a step too far... it makes it easier for them to then take the next step....