Mumsnet moderation of trans rights and gender critical issues II

I’m going to boycott l’Orea

Me too and I’m telling them why.

I’m going to boycott l’Oreal. So many examples, but this one really bothers me:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=f8j8FyQbY5c

You will, definitely, lose women over it, because many women are simply not prepared to use that word.

I. Will. Not. Use. That. Word.

I'm on Samsung and use their keyboard.
Try Swype which is a great gesture (i.e. not hunt and peck) keyboard. You can add on the Android (not on the Ipad but it will learn).

We can’t refer to natal sex? When natal sex and the oppression we suffer because of it is the root of feminism?
That is fucking ridiculous.

History has taught us that totalitarian regimes do not win.

Religions belief has been crushed in communist countries, religion carried on regardless.

Men may try to crush women and our language. We will carry on regardless. We will find ways to teach our children what is a man and what is a woman based on sex. We will do this because it is what keeps us as females safe and it is what keeps the human race going via reproduction.

Aggressive action nit members.

But this has been forced by some men being aggressive without even being members.

We need to fight back.

No worries Rufus

I'm on Samsung and use their keyboard. I can't find a way to add words (unless I misspell for long enough!) Can anyone help?

Re aggressive members, I think we should be getting legal advice. It is illegal to deny services like this even when they are provided freely.

It's all very well arguing that women need mumsnet for support but what is it worth if Mumsnet as an org are putting their substantial power and influence behind making women unpeople.

And Gib

I don't mean to be rude, but you are completely uninformed about AGP. Many men who have AGP will have hormones and/or surgery. To create breasts and a feminised figure.

Most stop short of genital surgery, but certainly not all, by any means. The ultimate thrill is to have sex 'as a woman'.

Reading Blanchards typology will tell you everything if you need to know about it. If you disregard him, simply read the thread I posted on here, and see how many men/TW want surgery/hormones.

It does feel completely counter intuitive to take female hormones as it can cause a reduction in libido. So for those who do not want this, they just have surgery to create breasts.

There are, however, many men whose is AGP is very distressing. Taking female hormones is a bonus. It creates the feminisation they desire, but reduces their sex drive.

The pattern often involves a binge/purge element and porn plays a huge part.

Men who viewed women as weak victims and get aroused by this, have no place in women's spaces.

You cannot define the difference by making a distinction between those with or without surgery.

Just to note apple (ie iPhone software) doesn't recognise the word transwomen and tries to split it in two. Make of that what you will.

Make sure you add it. I suspect they have access to such data.

fortunate

Misunderstanding...but its going to take me an hour to try and word my explanation so im not going to

hope thats ok

Suffice to say you werent being rude or saying anyone else was

am starting to think more aggressive counter-measures are required.

Our power is our numbers.

Just to note apple (ie iPhone software) doesn't recognise the word transwomen and tries to split it in two. Make of that what you will.

My iPhone has eventually learned not to correct me when I says 'transwomen'. It still seems to be struggling with 'transmen' though and I nearly ended up writing 'transmembrane' this morning.

It isn't counter to science once you realise that sex, like gender, is a social construct. People aren't born into a sex - they are assigned one.

This is incorrect. No one is assigned a sex at birth. Their sex is observed. A baby with ambiguous genitalia would be genetically tested. There is no assignment of sex only observation.

Gender is a social construct. Sex is immutable. do you believe human being can change sex? not gender, not any of the ‘how you look and act’ stuff - actual sex.

Can a person with XY chromosomes change into a person with XX chromosomes, if so, please explain how because it’d win you a Nobel

Ffs what a mess.

HQ, we can talk about biology, we can talk about science, we can hold a gender critical viewpoint, you are firm advocates of free speech? Yes?

You feel as though putting the word male, indicating natal sex, in a term for transwomen is malicious? Malicious for gender critical women, to talk about science and biology, advocated by free speech, by using the word male for a man who supports damaging gender stereotypes on the basis of their natal sex??!

It is not, not, not malicious. Its just not. It's crucial to the argument. It's a defending position. It's not an attack.

Please acknowledge that this is not malicious. For god's sake.

If you are caught up about the terminology, and there is not a person here who doesn't understand how or why, then could you do this:

Could you confirm that you accept the word transwoman and you promise this will not change even if you are put under more pressure? (You may have noticed that most people here are of the opinion that this pressure will never stop).

You will, definitely, lose women over it, because many women are simply not prepared to use that word.

You are now being asked by women, who feel heart stoppingly unwelcome here, to provide a word that satisfies transactivists and feminists.

It can't be done.

Furthermore, when these women leave, the pressure and stress that you're under, will not stop.

This site is characterised across-the-board by the feminists. MPs, journalists, novelists, activists, all hang out here. It is the feminists talking on the rest of the board that has given this site it's flavour. Its power.

Unless you believe there is another difference between this and other parenting sites?

This one has political clout, because the women are political.

Do I understand what you want to happen? You want the word male to be removed from addressing transwomen because they have demanded it. But we can still say transwomen are men if we are discussing a gender critical viewpoint?

You will, and are, losing women over this.

At least stem the tide by promising you will go no further. Acknowledge it's not malicious. Acknowledge it's a compromise and the inevitable further pressure will not result in new rules re terminology.

Well if anyone does, come and join me please;

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3277821-Help-me-make-a-list-of-MN-s-advertisers?watched=1

I don't think any words should be banned.

Well I'm fine with certain words being banned - the 'n' word for example or the one for a transperson that ends with a 'y'.

I do worry that the new rules are a bit prescriptive though. It seems like the only words that are acceptable now are 'transwomen', 'transmen' and 'transpeople'.

But as long as I can continue to express my concerns about the risks of opening up what we're previously spaces reserved for women, I suppose I can live with it.

Does anyone agree that WE need the be lobbying the advertisers? (And really quite energetically.)

That’s what the TRAs have done to leverage their nonsense.

But whose pound is at stake here? Women’s m.

It isn't counter to science once you realise that sex, like gender, is a social construct. People aren't born into a sex - they are assigned one.
How are we supposed to have conversations when people say stuff like this?

Would sperm producing transwoman be ok?
The fact that the vast majority of transwomen have a fully functioning penis, cannot be ignored when we are talking about issues about women's safety.

My my my this has become a massive shit show.

I used to refer to people who wished to present as women (when born men) as transwomen. This goodwill has been erode overtime with constant gaslighting. I will never now refer to people born male with a penis as women in any shape or form including using transwomen.

This is my line in the sand, the hill I die on. I would rather die on my feet (metaphorically of course!) than live on my knees.

Just to note apple (ie iPhone software) doesn't recognise the word transwomen and tries to split it in two. Make of that what you will.

Yes.