what ever happened to the This Is my child campaign?

That's true, zzzz.

And obviously directly discriminating against people with disabilities is wrong. As are posts that say 'disabled people are x, y, z', or other generalisations.

But a post upthread suggested that it was disablist to say that you wouldn't want your child to have brain damage. That's where it gets woolly for me.

Exactly Beyond

Charlie's situation is complex, and the legal proceedings are interesting and important, but taking the piss out of people less clever (ie Charlie's Army) or discussing the value of life in the context of a baby, leaves a horrible taste.

I had to search for the 'This is my life' campaign - so yes, Samcro, it certainly needs to be brought to the fore.
(here is the link - www.mumsnet.com/campaigns/this-is-my-child )
How can we rubberneckers help?
You obviously don't like the Charlie Gard threads, but they have brought up so many ethical questions and have prompted people to support GOSH. What positive outcome would you like from this thread?

Yes I agree. However that hasn't got anything to do with the ops massive gneralisation and rather goady 'yet here we are with thread 13 about CG full of rubberneckers making disablist comments about brain damage Or should I say ignorant comments'

Agree. If you want to ask about TIMC then do so. But when you directly and negatively reference another thread in your opening gambit you have to accept that this will become a topic on this thread.

For what it's worth I have followed and commented on the CG threads. They are fast moving and I haven't honestly read every single post but in the hundreds of comments I have read I haven't honestly seen anything I would consider disablist.
The vast majority of comments have been a discussion about this complex case and how it is playing out in the modern age of social media etc. They have also been contributed to by brave parents sharing their own difficult stories. Are their experiences deemed to be inappropriate?
To accuse it of voyeurism is, I think unfair. Particularly when it must of been the parents who chose to make this case public, GOSH would not have been able to do so due to patient confidentiality and other members of Charlie's Family have been whipping up Charlie's Army.
Also it is important that as a society we talk about and debate these complex ethical issues, which will only get more frequent as medical science makes further advances. Sometimes these discussions will be uncomfortable and emotive; it doesn't mean we shouldn't have them.

As I said upthread (and I'm sure anyone who knows me knows!!) if I thought the discussion in general was disabilist, I wouldn't be part of it. I've been on enough 'disabilism on mn' threads!!

If I have posted or agreed with anything contentious on any thread, I'd hope to be directly pulled up on it (similar thing, I posted about CB "committing suicide" earlier, not knowing that the "committing" comes from when it was a crime. Apologised and got it amended asap. Every day is a school day). Nobody has done that, so now I don't know if I've said something hurtful unintentionally, or if my posts have been fine. And I'll probably obsess/panic about that for a while now (cause I seriously hate being on the 'wrong' side of a disagreement with people I like and respect)

Cause yes polter, disabilist attitudes permeate even amongst people who wouldn't do it purposely.

" A life not worth living" is singular and refers to an individual.
It's fundamentally different from the plural, which would be "lives not worth living"
HTH

I've been following the CG threads and I've not seen disabilist posts. The case is about a terminally ill child and whether parents should have ultimate rights over their child's care even if medics disagree. Talking about quality of life is part of that. No one has suggested that disabled children have a poor quality of live just that in this case many feel CG isn't living a life they would like to. Talking about one individual is not the same as extending that view to all.
I think it's a case that could ultimately effect any of us whether we have a child with a disability or not.

'A life not worth living etc. They really, really are. Can't people see just how wrong that generalisation is?'
It isn't a generalisation though, people were referring to that one very specific tragic case. I don't think anyone applied it to all disabled people because that would of course be totally wrong and deleted anyway

Some of the comments do read as extremely general. A life not worth living etc. They really, really are. Can't people see just how wrong that generalisation is?

How do we, as a society, decide what is disablist? Is it in the eye of the beholder(s)? What if not everyone agrees?

'Part of the problem is that disablism isn't well understood and disablist attitudes permeate society, even among people who would never knowingly or intentionally be disablist'

Yes I agree. However that hasn't got anything to do with the ops massive gneralisation and rather goady 'yet here we are with thread 13 about CG full of rubberneckers making disablist comments about brain damage Or should I say ignorant comments'

Part of the problem is that disablism isn't well understood and disablist attitudes permeate society, even among people who would never knowingly or intentionally be disablist.

Have to agree with Tinsels on this.

"the GC threads are really bad" "how so?" "this isn't about the CG threads, stop derailing TIMC"

Yes that seems to be the general gist of things..

You must have tried to talk about something important in a nuanced and thoughtful way and been repeatedly interrupted? It's more that.

There is a difference between being interrupted and ignored and talked over
and being asked questions about your views

zzzzz, there is space for over 900 more messages in this thread. How does a few people coming on to discuss the subject matter of the thread constitute filling it up?

"the GC threads are really bad"
"how so?"
"this isn't about the CG threads, stop derailing TIMC"

is basically how this thread works now

A lot of sentiment on the CG threads is that brain damage is the end of the world, that brain damaged people have no quality of life and that they'd not want their children to have brain damage.

No, it isn't, Bishop. There, as you would expect with the number of people contributing, differing views. Those who tend to agree with the hospital position tend towards the view that catastrophic and irreversible brain damage in a terminally ill child such that he is blind, deaf, paralysed, in pain, oedematous and unable to breathe is such that nature should be allowed to take its course. Its the kind of decision that is being made by doctors the world over every day. How is it disablist? A number of those posting are parents who have had to take precisely that decision. Are they disablist?

The posts are very definite that there is no hope. This is mainly based on media coverage

Again, no, that is not the case. There has been extensive discussion of the evidence, including what is in the judgments and the statistics quoted by Dr Hirano: that comes from direct quotes of what he said in court, not media coverage.

But who are we (the collective we) to decide in a general way where that line is drawn?

No-one on that thread is purporting to make that decision. The general consensus is that it should be left to the judge, who has all the relevant information. That doesn't stop discussion of developments and a number of very relevant issues around the case, not least the role of social media.

Samcro Thank you for the apology. I was actually very hurt more than offended

they give only one side of a debate

There is absolutely no reason why you shouldn't go on the threads and give another side.

cheer to the poster who called her mates over here.
proves that all other debate is not allowed.

How does anyone posting on this thread prevent you from debating? The very fact that you object suggests that you think that no-one should be allowed on this thread to disagree with you. Doesn't that mean that it is you who are trying to prevent debate?

CG parents have fired up social media and turned this into a circus
I find it ridiculous to claim it being discussed in here is voyeuristic
I have a child with brain damage. I don't find any of the CG threads disabalist.
There are many strands to the CG case. Not least, imo, the worry that sm campaign could influence medical or legal decision making
You must spend your life looking for where you can find offence to see it in those threads