MNHQ here: have you got strong feelings and personal experience about partners staying overnight on postnatal wards?

I would hate this. I felt so emotionally vulnerable and physically vulnerable. When I stood up a rush of blood and gunk made a puddle my feet. There were no clean sheets for 4 days. Inevitably they would attract more visitors. Instead of going to see the new dad at home in the evening, relatives would roll up to the ward.

There aren't enough beds for patients, we should not offer them to partners. If you are staying in it is because you have a problem. I didn't need men next the other side of a curtain which may be gappy when I was in that state.
You are trying to establish breast feeding and don't need visitors there all the time.

There wasn't food for us on the ward all the time. Having worked as a nurse in the dim and distant past, I am aware that visitors feel entitled to tea coffee biscuits. They used to refuse to pay 25p to the volunteers on the tea trolley. One utter tool (visitor- young and friend not elderly relative) disputed the cost. Then when I stepped in he said he only had a £50 note and no change. Luckily all the nurses clubbed together to sort change out for him. Arse hole.

I had DC1 in a private room. In France. I had no idea what I was doing, and the nurses were showing me everything - how to give him a bath, how to change diapers, everything. Of course there was also a BF counsellor coming by several times per day to check how the feeding was going. With proper support, wards are really not required.

I had DC1 on a shared ward and was grateful for the expertise and companionship of multip mothers.

I had DC2 in a side room and was grateful for the peace.

I can see both sides. I think the benefits of sharing are vastly outweighed by the potential disadvantages and risks.

You can have shared spaces as well (eg breakfast room, day room) to encourage sharing experience and decrease loneliness.

Kpo

I seruously doubt the vast majority of mothers will only interact successfully with their babies if see other new mums doing it too, and I wouldn't be comfortable having another person watching over me.

I really don't think there are many benefits at all of having shared wards, but there are certainly many, many disadvantages

I don't think anybody has said on this thread that they prefer wards over private rooms, so they can socialise?

No, I don't think they should be allowed to stay. Privacy is important.

There is no perfect solution.

-Partners need to stay as the woman needs physical help and emotional help.

-Partners need to go encase they are abusive, leer at other new mothers or need to look after any other children that they may have

-All rooms need to be private so that there is total privacy

-There should be wards so that new mothers aren't isolated, can learn how to interact with thier babies by watching others, make friends with other new mothers and hand signal a passing midwife if they have lost thier buzzer

Yes women need help and support after having a baby but there should be enough health care assistants and nurses to provide this at night. I would not want the husbands of three other women snoring loudly talking etc during the night. No problem during the day but new mums do need rest.

I strongly support what yorksha said and I disagree that her comments are somehow offensive or out of keeping with the rest of the thread; she simply introduced a point and perspective that hadn't been mentioned before.

While I agree that the best case scenario would be private rooms, I think it is also worth saying what should happen NOW while most maternity units are shared wards.

I don't really understand why those in favour of allowing partners to stay are so angry about it. The problem is that on a shared ward, whatever your reason for having your partner stay with you, and however valid it is, meeting your needs can only be done at the expense of the women you share your ward with.

From reading this thread and others, it seems that the conclusion is obvious: best case scenario, all post natal women have private rooms. If not possible or until achieved, shared post natal wards should be single sex and partners should not be allowed overnight. Hospitals should have an obligation to cater for those with genuine medical needs requiring their partners' to stay overnight (ie private rooms). "I want him there" or "medical care isn't good enough - I need him there" are not good enough reasons to prioritise your care over those women you share your ward with.

Ilona don't feel bad about it - even without hearing problems, I slept through DS bawling his head off next to me and had to be woken by the midwives - because I was so off my head on strong drugs and exhaustion post CS I could have slept through an earthquake. The midwives will have seen it before.

I was in a shared ward for 6 days post emcs. I wear hearing aids, at least one of which I kept in to sleep so I could hear if my new baby cried.
The girl next to me at one point near the end had her partner stay. They talked so loud that I had to take both hearing aids out in order to get some sleep.
That meant that I didn't hear my baby cry during the night :'( When the midwife came to wake me (probably called by the same couple), I felt even worse!

Did you even bother to read what others had put before? You posts in the context of where the debate was just look really bad.

I'm not twisting your words.

You wrote your comments without thinking.

As a HCP former or present I expect better because you should understand the implications of saying things like that when the flip of the coin is often OTHER vulnerable people.

Frankly I'm even more disgusted to find out your experience with mental health. It poor.

I'd like to thank you for your insensitivity and how it reinforces the taboo of mental health and the treatment of women as being somehow 'demanding' in their needs

You're twisting my words.
I didn't say anything about mental health.
I did not say anyone was being demanding. I did not try to "silence" anyone. I simply offered another point of view. It's called a discussion. If I can't express a point of view that differs from some other people's point of view or be accused of "silencing them" then this is going to be a very one sided, closed discussion.

Not that I need to justify myself but I have suffered with significant mental health issues myself (including postnatal depression), am currently caring for a relative with Bipolar Disporder and am a former mental health nurse and counselor. So you don't need to tell me about the stigma of mental illness.

Women who suffer from mental illness and women who are abused are not mutually exclusive as you seem to suggest. Far from it. Also, it's not as though "women with mental health concerns" are one unanimous hivemind. I have worked with many, many women with mental health issues who would find sleeping on the same ward as a load of strange men highly distressing, for a number of reasons.

I agree with you 100% actually that the money to fully fund the NHS is there but the current government are not motivated to provide it. I agree that that's a disgrace. But it's the reality of the situation we're in right now- of course we should strive for change and of course individual rooms for everyone or a choice of wards would be a great long term goal to strive for but that's not an option right now. Right now the options are postnatal wards where partners can stay, or postnatal wards where they can't. That's what the OP is about and that's the choice I was commenting on.

yorkshapudding My mum told me of a woman on her ward in the 50s who was readmitted because her husband had burst her stitches. She was screaming to sew her up totally to stop him (it was her 15th child).

Now it's happening on the wards? I know that most men would be appalled at both those examples and would never want to be intrusive.

Some women need one thing. Others need another. That's the point.

Instead we get:

Women who have mental health concerns which are recognised by health professionals should not get support because some women are abused by men. We can't afford to treat women like humans because there is 'no money' because there is no political will to provide money and I support this by trying to silence others using the emotional blackmail card, rather than seeking a more progressive approach and overhaul of maternity.

You make it sound like women with mental health concerns are selfish bitches who don't give a shit about women who are abused.

I'd like to thank you for your insensitivity and how it reinforces the taboo of mental health and the treatment of women as being somehow 'demanding' in their needs.

You've just illustrated the point about how women have to continually justify their mental health to even health care professionals and continue to dance to the tune of the political culture rather than challenging it as being unacceptable.

Yorksha, those examples show that the need for some women to have time away from their partners is greater than the need of other women to have their partners with them.

"All those saying everyone should have a private room or there should be two separate wards, one with partners allowed and one not, I don't think you realise the desperate state the NHS is in."

Yes, and I think that any money spent should be used improve the outcomes of mothers and babies not for the comfort and inclusion of partners.

I used to be a HCP and am still working with vulnerable families. I worked with a young woman whose partner raped her in the middle of the night on a postnatal ward. I was shocked when I heard this but speaking to friends who are midwives and HV's I now know it's more common than you might think. Same goes for men beating their DP's, emotionally abusing them and forcing them to sleep in a chair a couple of hours after giving birth so they can relax on the bed. So all those saying "but I needed my DH with me", I get it. I really do. But can you just imagine for a second being forced to have penetrative sex a few hours after a vaginal birth??!
I was in labour for over 48 hours with DD. I was exhausted, sick and emotional afterwards. Watching DH leave and having to manage alone on a hot, dirty and understaffed postnatal ward was horrible. But it's nothing compared to what that poor woman went through. Whilst I'm sure your DP's are all lovely, that's great for you, but there are others whose DP's are abusive, inconsiderate and represent a risk to their partners, other patients and HCP's. Yes, I'd have loved to have DH with me, but it wouldn't be right because it means abusive scumbags get to stay too.

All those saying everyone should have a private room or there should be two separate wards, one with partners allowed and one not, I don't think you realise the desperate state the NHS is in.

Which isn't a bad decision under the circumstances but also doesn't allow forward planning for those whose mental health requires it. It's also generally more likely to let women with MH needs slip through the gap as such needs aren't always as obvious and can compound the issue if they make it harder for a woman to speak up and advocate for herself.

The gaps in the system are compounded by a lack of proper understanding about mental health needs by women and HCP themselves.

I was aware of my issues before I was pregnant and was able with DH to discuss this enabling him to advocate for me and put a plan in place before I even conceived. My situation was unusual from this point of view but the reality is only that I was aware of my rights and problems in a way that other women aren't. I long since lost count of the threads on MN in the childbirth section, who have concerns and worries really not dissimilar to mine but are struggling to a) realise their concerns are a health issue as equal to any physical need and b) to get the support and help they require acknowledged as 'legitimate' health concerns that need support.

In my case the hospital were great. They recognised my NEEDS - not desire in terms of the difference between 'need' and 'want' - included having DH there to support and continue to advocate for me after the birth. This was in the best interests of me and DS and not some kind of demand.

It is not lost on me that my ability to get access to this was - at least in part - down to me being educated and undoubtedly being middle class enough to argue the case in the right way and demonstrate that not having that support was likely to be damaging. And be willing to travel to somewhere able to provide that.

If you only find yourself in a situation where you need this, after you've actually had a baby, and the facilities are not onsite then you are effectively left completely stuffed. A lot of women - even ones who regard themselves as robust - are totally caught by surprise by their emotional and mental health needs after having a baby. Its unlike other health issues precisely because of the nature of childbirth and the hormones it produces.

I don't feel guilty though. I feel angry about it. I think its important for this reason to fight for equal treatment and proper understanding of why it is important for partners to be able to stay where it is appropriate and if this is not possible due to the lack of appropriate space to start asking why the hell we don't have it.

You don't have the right to demand what care you get under the NHS but you do have the right to the most appropriate care for your health needs.

My point is, don't feel guilty about, getting the appropriate support and care for your needs - that is your right. The mere fact you feel guilty about this, highlights the entire problem and why it is just so shocking. Do what you are doing here and try and help others who are being failed to get the same basic needs properly supported.

I have to say, I have got to the point where I feel the whole 'Should partners be allowed to stay on wards?' as a question is down right offensive and belittling to women for this reason because it does women such a tremendous disservice.

I'm very glad people think I expressed my points well. I recently experienced a fairly traumatic birth (three day induction followed by an emergency section, baby in the NICU for a few days and a week long stay in hospital) so this is an issue close to my heart currently. I was fortunately given a private room due to these complications so my husband was able to stay. Even if there had been a hundred available midwives I would have preferred help and support from him. For a while we thought there would be no room and he would have to leave. I am a fairly robust person, emotionally and physically, but after all that had happened, and all the drugs in my system, the thought of being left alone in a strange place with strange people, not even totally sure where in the building my baby was, left me almost hyperventillating and in floods of tears.

His physical assistance was also needed during DD's first night back with us. My blood pressure was so high I was on 2 hourly obs meaning I hadn't had longer than about 90 mins uninterrupted sleep in 5 days. I was so sleep deprived I temporarily lost the ability to string together coherent sentences. I was not safe to be looking after a newborn. A HCP could have assisted with this (I mean theoretically, if hospitals were better staffed) but I was very glad that DH was able to care for her during this time instead and his presence helped me feel like less of a parenting failure in my irrational, hormonal, sleep-deprived state.

My birth experience was pretty bad but infinitely more tolerable because I had access to a private room and familial support. I feel very guilty that not all women are able to access the same.

Final note: the ability to book home births or private rooms is another way to address portions of this issue but not available to all. In my area there is only one hospital with maternity facilities and rooms are provided according to need. Which isn't a bad decision under the circumstances but also doesn't allow forward planning for those whose mental health requires it. It's also generally more likely to let women with MH needs slip through the gap as such needs aren't always as obvious and can compound the issue if they make it harder for a woman to speak up and advocate for herself.

Huge, relatively new hospital in Glasgow. But guess which unit was still designed as a ward?

On reading this thread I've come to agree that the premise of the question is wrong. We shouldn't be asking whether or not partners should be allowed to stay on wards, as others have said whatever you choose will leave many women feeling more vulnerable, we should be asking why postnatal care is set up in the way it is. It seems as though other countries, some a lot poorer than ours, do a much better job of looking after post-natal women. When post-natal care is dreaded more than actual labour something has gone very wrong indeed. I hope that the author does raise these points as they are vitally important.

I wonder if the culture in this country, where people are used to getting healthcare 'free', makes people feel as though they should just accept what they are given, even when it is dangerously inadequate and causes more problems for mothers down the line. I also think there is definitely a fraction within the healthcare profession who don't class women who have just given birth as 'deserving' of proper care, and this idea also needs to change.

The problem with a policy of being able to stay until they misbehave or x number ofstrikes is Who is hen going to have the job of kicking a possibly aggressive man out? Midwives? Security guards? And it's likely to happen at at point of conflict and hence be more stressful for everyone on the ward. It's much see to have a blanket policy.

I agree with all of the privacy and DV reasons but also that partners should be allowed to stay if mothers have a private room. That way if a woman feels the support of her partner is very important she can book a private room or opt for home birth.

Also yes there needs to be more fündig for more staff. Healthcare assistants even if not midwives. Often women just need a pair of hands.