Reform lost 6 by elections this week 🎉

We shall see. I suspect there are millions of people in this country who claim benefits but could work.

Most train accidents are human error rather than computer error.

It may be the obvious choice for you, it isn't for me. I am Centre Left. My political bedfellows would be Centre Right. I value stability and good governance over ideology.

I think some right wingers would rather see the UK fail, than succeed under Labour. Particularly those who rush to defend the racist, misogynist and treasonous Reform party.

Me? I want just want the UK to heal from the catastrophic last government and succeed.

Is that an opinion or is there statistical evidence for it?

I was musing on the circumstance where the Conservatives didn't exist. So if the didnt the only other mainstream party is Reform. I agree that I prefer good governance over ideology. I personally don't agree with using over-emotional, extreme language in describing another mainstream party (Reform is mainstream) as I don't think it helps an argument.

"Suspect" does not equal "fact". You have already misrepresented a fact so I don't think your suspicions are particularly reliable. Millions of people on benefits do work, btw.

I don’t believe they are mainstream.

They’re intentionally not so, aren’t they?

They want to offer an alternative to the mainstream parties? The people vs the establishment, etc?

Fairly hard to be anti establishment and “different” if you are in fact mainstream and part of the establishment.

Ok. Instead on the balance of probabilities there will be a larhe number of people on benefits that are perfectly able to work.

Either that or vast numbers of people are sick in this country. Which I believe but not believe for all claimants. That's because I have a healthy knowledge of human nature (get something for nothing if you can) but still have hope for this country that the majority of people are able to live their lives without state support. Otherwise we are a sick country which is pathetic. (In the Victorian sense).

Reform is a party that attracts racists. That is indisputable as evidenced by the ITV documentary.

Reform is a party that attracts misogynists. That is indisputable as evidenced by the ITV documentary and Sarah Pochin's remarks.

Reform officials have taken bribes from Russia. That is indisputable as evidenced by Nathan Gill's imprisonment and with possibly more evidence to come. And Farage's recent reactions were very suspect too.

So, everything @TooBigForMyBoots said is true.

I didn't use emotional language. I used factual language.

Have you missed their racism, misogyny, links to Putin's Russia? Or are you overlooking them because Reform are Right Wing like you?

Those sorts of people may be attracted by Reform. But not all Reform supporters are those things.

Obviously Reform are focused on by the estalbishment. Dominic Cummings correctly predicted it would. But we need to be fair when we criticisd. I expect the bad language used is used by many people in this country. And Im pretty sure many on the left are racist (such as the Greens) and that some immigrants are pretty rude about British people. Reform just gets more publicity when its members say awful things. Not excusing what is said. But it wont be confined to Reform. Obviously

You are classing outright racism and vile misogyny as "bad language" @Pineneedlesincarpet ?

With the caveat that many claim benefits AND work.

Its how people throughout the country speak. We aren't all Jacob Rees Mogg and live in rarified circles where people only believe and say what polite society allows them to say. And if you go in any pub in the country away from the swanky parts its what you will hear. And it wont all be white people being racist. Sorry to break reality to you.

I don't approve of the language myself but that is because I am in polite society. But I do have ears.

Yes of course. Although how could they if they were too sick to work? (Was originally referring to sickness benefits but I wasn't being clear).

Only certain people.

Most people are rightly disgusted and voiced that. Even Farage is trying to distance himself from it all. Maybe such repulsive views are common in your circle. They are rejected pretty much everywhere else.

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

I don't live anywhere swanky. Yes you get the odd racist in a pub, but it's not common. And yes not only white people are racist. Zia Yusuf is a prime example of that.

But you think Reform is OK, so probably not much more to say.

Thats not really much of an argument is it. And maybe you don't speak the language to know what someone is saying.

The problem with suppressing people's real views and using the police unevenly for bad language is that they will express their opinions in other ways. Reform need to improve their recruitment policy obviously to keep out bad eggs. But they are a new party and will perhaps get this better. Its important to have Reform. Reform's policies aren't racist and Farage isn't a racist. They have sacked those people. Otherwise what is the alternative? The National Front? The views don't go away.

And maybe you don't speak the language to know what someone is saying.

Wtf?

Its racist to only accuse people who are talking in English of racisim? Surely? People who speak other languages are perfectly able to insult people in other languages. I know this having a foreign parent. Its not only British people that can be racist. My point was that this type of speech is rife throughout the UK.

I thought that was obvious? Why "wtf"?

Edit..oh I see. You misunderstood and thought I was suggesting the Pp couldnt understand English?? 🤣🤣🤣

Usung the police for bad language? What do you mean?

Reform is a racist party. That is my view. You are entitled not to agree. I don't believe it is important to have Reform and I hope it implodes.

Its not only British people that can be racist

Nobody has suggested that. It would be ludicrous.

In the last few years people have been arrested for their language. Eg Alison Pearson.
Reform may be racist. Though the Greens definitely are.

Humour me.

I only call people racist that I have heard saying racist things.

I can’t speak French. So if someone is racist in French, I am unable to call them out on that because I don’t know what they said.

I can’t assume that all French speakers are racist, that’s obviously not reasonable, and I can’t hold people to account for things I don’t know was said.