Reform lost 6 by elections this week 🎉

Depends how you define extremism I suppose. Compared with the old school Tories of my youth the current iteration is definitely extremist.

You seem scarily eager for a specific kind of attack. I wonder why?Thats a stupid thing to say and doesn't deserve a response. Beneath you, Pointy.

Yes if the far right attacked before the election I expect there would similarly reasonably be a reduction in the Restore vote or whatever far right party is standing.

The point was voting is volatile. And an Islamist attack from people who came over on the small boats would possibly lead to an increase in votes for a party that definitely would control the small boats. Which is Reform. I would reasonably expect that to happen.

Thats not an argument I was making.

People often mistake the ECHR as the source of our rights. Its actually the Human Rights Act which was passed by Parliament. Since we left the EU, UK law is now supreme and we no longer have direct effect. So being a member of the ECHR or not does not protect our rights.

I wouldnt worry. The Conservatives aren highly unlikely to pass laws reducing the rights of UK citizens as they wouldn't get reelected.

So what? The ECHR doesn’t do anything that a UK Bill of Rights couldn’t do, and is no more permanent than any law we pass at Westminster.

We domesticated the ECHR in 2000. That’s long after we passed lots of other constitutional law, like the European Communities Act, and that got repealed. So it’s hardly unthinkable.

Doing away with the Human Rights Act would be the quickest and easiest practical solution. We’d still be in the ECHR but we could remove its direct effect on the courts. It would become, as it used to be, a further tier of challenge.

All of this said, the ECHR is not the source of our immigration or terrorism problems. The objections lie more in its expansionist judges.

Too late then.

Er.... The ECHR is completely separate from the EU. Reform and the Tories wouldn't be yammering on about leaving it if we had already left it by leaving the EU.

I stand by what I said about an attack. What exactly makes you think an Islamist attack is more likely than any other? An attack by Iran at this point in time needs to be seen in the context of the US war against Iran, so not as simple as just labelling it 'Islamist'.

Reform's plans for stopping small boats is exceedingly worrying because of... international law. It relies on other countries just letting any Reform government do what it wants, and that is just not going to happen. Reform would turn the UK into another international pariah, with the difference that the UK is a small country with not a great deal of global power. It would be a disaster on every level: the UK would lose international security cooperation and there would also be economic consequences.

The Conservatives aren highly unlikely to pass laws reducing the rights of UK citizens as they wouldn't get reelected.

They already have.

UK citizens. They won't reduce the rights of UK citizens like disability discrimination laws. They will reduce the rights of foreign individuals to use the ECHR to avoid deportation.

I think Im answering the point you are making. You are being slightly cryptic.

Well let's see their manifesto and judge then.

They won't reduce the rights of UK citizens like disability discrimination laws.

Really?

They will reduce the rights of everyone

Er.... The ECHR is completely separate from the EU. Reform and the Tories wouldn't be yammering on about leaving it if we had already left it by leaving the EU.

Yes ..Im trying to explain the difference to you. EU law had direct effect and if EU law conflicted with UK law, EU law was supreme. The UK Parliament wasnt supreme. Im saying to you since we left the EU, Parliament is now supreme. ECHR regs do not have direct effect and they are not supreme over UK law. Therefore the rights do not derive from the ECHR. They derive from Parliament. Its basically gone back to how it was before we joined.

What exactly makes you think an Islamist attack is more likely than any other?

Statistics* *

Reform's plans for stopping small boats is exceedingly worrying because of... international law. It relies on other countries just letting any Reform government do what it wants, and that is just not going to happen.
Really? What do you think is going to happen? What can other countries do to make a country bend to its will regarding actions taken within its own borders? War or sanctions. I doubt either will happen if Reform start enforcing our own borders like most other countries do. In fact other countries with an immigration problem will probably watch and learn. Look at the US. No one is stopping Trump.

I repeat...International law is an illusion.

Who? The Conservatives? No. Just foreign individuals so that they can stop using the ECHR to avoid deportation. Perfectly reasonable to put the national interest first.

What will those reductions in rights be then?

I think thats a seperate issue. Obviously if a particular party was elected on a manifesto of reducing the rights of disabled people the ECHR couldn't prevent that anyway as domestic law would just be changed and we would ignore the ECHR. But I dont think the Conservatives are aiming to reduce the rights of disabled people? I havent seen their manifesto though.

Why didn't you read what you replied to ?

I did in my post above.

The ones we lost since 2020. Those ones.

When the UK leaves the ECHR, everyone will lose those rights.

Is.that difficult to understand?

Which rights would people like to lose?

Our rights come from the Human Rights Act though? Which is domestic law?

On the subject of the thread, and I haven’t RTWFT so apologies if a repetition, Labour lost control of another London council a couple of weeks ago after one of their councillors was charged with fraud. By all accounts they dragged their feet in suspending him.

The truth is more we lose access to a court to enforce those rights. Instead we will be allowing our own government to mark it's own homework instead.

It's like getting rid of consumer law, and saying that companies can sort out their own complaints themselves. Nothing could possibly go wrong with that.

Eh? Which are they?

I think its perfectly fine. We are a grown up country and can run our own business and make our own laws. Weve been doing it for a few years after all. Additionally our country invented the concept of rights so I have no concerns. Id have more concerns with the European judges making rulings on cases given the way Europe is turning very right wing.

Anyway the ECHR doesnt enforce its own judgements.

Not telling.