At breaking point with parenting; have lost hope of it getting better

So sad to hear that. Wishing you lots of luck and strength in the days ahead 💐

I’m so sorry to read that OP.

So so sorry to read that. Sending you and your DH strength and fortitude.

Oh God I am so so sorry to hear that. What awful news. Sending you my very best and hope your DH’s treatment goes well.

How are you today OP? I’ve been feeling miserable today. Flat, depressed, that awful knot in my stomach.

I don’t understand how parents lost the power. Why are these kids so bold? We were quelled by a glare from my mum. I think there does need to be some fear and respect for the parent child dynamic to work. Not much but there needs to be some or you get this miserable mayhem

Our local outside pool has a strict half hour booking system. After that time you get out and the next person swims. Is shocking how many parents literally can’t get their primary age kids out of the pool. They stand there ineffectually shouting “Oliver time to get out” and the kid totally ignores them. The lifeguard has to step in Mortifying. I would never dared disobey my mum.

I separate my DC (4 and 7) when they are winding each other up. If I need to stay with the younger one in order that they both get some space, then I do that. Or I would try to keep an eye or be aware and be available to intervene and say "No, DS is having some space, you go downstairs and watch TV." Or take her and find something to engage her with. I am trying to teach them that it's a neutral thing to do, not present it as a punishment, but just like if you need a wee go to the toilet, if you need to move go and jump on the trampoline (not the sofa), if you need space then go and have some space. It's OK, everyone needs space sometimes. YY it doesn't feel great when one DC is getting sent off alone, but OTOH if they are the older one often they go to bed later than the younger, so you can try to get some 1:1 time in then, which helps balance it out a bit.

I only tend to have the scenario where they are magnetically attracted to each other and hell bent on destroying themselves/the house/my sanity when DS2's ADHD medication is wearing off (or before he was on medication it used to happen if I didn't occupy 80% of school holidays with engaging activities), or when one of them is extremely wound up for one reason or another, because it seems to send everyone's nervous system haywire. That is almost impossible to handle when they outnumber me, because if I try to be stern, they don't recognise my authority, they just team up as though I am their enemy. If I ignore them, they start doing insane/dangerous shit that I have no choice but to intervene in. They don't notice or care about any kind of consequences given in this moment. Sometimes I can go in all enthusiastic and give one of them a distraction in the form of some kind of task/challenge which will send them to the other side of the house, and while they are distracted I might be able to appeal to a sense of reason, empathy or even threat in the other one however the moment the wild sibling appears, all is lost because whatever I said just evaporates in the explosion of dopamine they have on seeing their sibling. This kind of frenzy usually ends with someone getting hurt and everyone crying, so when I notice it happening now, unless I know DH is literally about to come home and we can revert to 1:1 which is what they ideally need in that scenario, I just break out a high value distraction. So it's something very sensory orientated like let's all have an ice pop, or I will bundle us all outside, or I will announce that we are going somewhere that I know they will want to go, or I will announce some high value fun thing but then add some kind of condition to it like but you need to tidy up (this really easy thing to tidy up) first - just to try and get them into a more cooperative, sensible mindset. That will only work if it's truly an extremely coveted thing. Or sometimes I just install them in front of separate screens, (Shoot me!) especially if I know it's happening because they are hungry etc and I need time to actually make food.

But that only really works because it's a minority of the time. It's a specific state they get into. I don't actually think it's behaviour which can be trained either way (I know people will say some of my responses are terrible because they reward the wild behaviour). I just don't think it's an especially conscious choice they are making at all, it's just when they have got each other all whipped up into a frenzy. It happens less and less the older they get, and now DS2 is on medication he's just as likely to be the one who can be talked out of it as DS3 is (who was generally the more sensible one previously). So it works to do a reset/scenery change rather than it just being seen as more of a reward. If it was happening more of the time, then it would probably be more rewarding.

That was a very funny gif I liked it a lot 😅

I just had a thought, my two don't care about a lot of consequences (and definitely didn't at 5 and 3) but they did respond well to rewards. Not marbles in a jar over a week, they didn't have the patience, but dd2 for example always wanted someone to stay with her at bedtime so we would use that as a carrot.

Is there anything relatively easy to implement like that you could use to say stop bothering your brother and we can do XYZ?

It does sound like you do want things to improve though so if Counselling is out because you don’t have time and you aren’t convinced of it’s efficacy and you don’t want to start medication because of weight gain then I’m not sure how you can turn this around?

Like another PP said, I was surprised when I went in SSRIs in the difference they made, although I did have a counsellor alongside.

I was probably on the SSRIs for around 6 months. I was very open with the GP that I felt I wasn’t looking to stay on them permanently and they helped me to come back off them when I was ready.

Why did you not take up the offering of counselling? It’s what you need.

Hi OP,

I just wanted to come and send you some sympathy as my friend is in a similar situation and I see how difficult it is for her.

Her children are 8 and 11 and they don’t get on at all and my friend also feels at breaking point. They argue constantly, wind each other up endlessly, have physical fights with each other (where injuries occur) and a lot of what my friend has said to me with regards to her feelings is similar to what you are expressing.

She tells me she hates herself when she shouts at them but sometimes she just erupts out of frustration and she will say things she doesn’t mean and it usually ends up with all 3 of them her crying and her feeling absolutely shit about herself. It upsets me so much when she keeps telling me that she’s a bad parent, because she isn’t, she’s just struggling.

Her kids wake up at 05.30am and from the minute their eyes open the stress starts….. she doesn’t get any kind of break, she always feels like she’s on high alert and monitoring their behaviour, she’s exhausted. She’s either trying to keep the kids apart, managing their behaviour or she’s working. She said there’s just no respite and I see it with my own eyes that her life is exactly like that, so I understand when you say you have no time for anything else.

Her husband works Mon-Fri so is available to help more at the weekend but I always get the impression he isn’t affected by their behaviour in the same way my friend is, he seems to be able to detach hinself from it (personally I think he just cant be bothered to deal with it).

But anyway, I’m rambling. I just wanted to say that I feel for you, reading your posts was like having my friend crying on my shoulder, and I know how much it affects her life and emotional state, so I imagine you’re hurting just as much.

If you do choose to go down the route of medication I hope it helps xx

@kettlesonnow I think you are fixating a lot on having two/ it being more difficult with two but I suspect your problems are maybe deeper than that? You seem to have a very fixed mindset that things will never improve.

I teach and have young kids (4 and 1) so I get it about work not being a break! You have your youngest starting school soon though so you will have days to yourself. They will get older and more reasonable.

You don't suggest how DH can help. When is he home from work? Can you divide and rule at the weekends? I'd be putting older one in activites at the weekend as much as possible. Do you have wider family support? Being out the house and around other people always helps me.

You can get to the GP or take a day off even as a teacher.

You don’t seem to want to make any changes @kettlesonnow. That’s fine if you’re prepared for this to continue and probably get worse as they get bigger, but you’re consistently saying that you do want things to change. You are past the point of a quick fix I’m afraid.

They will eventually start to care if the rules and consequences are applied fairly and consistently.

Getting yourself sorted will help you to be in a place where you’re ready to take on the challenge. Hopefully with your DH’s involvement

I also worked in childcare when my kids were little and my OH works FT with a chronic health condition/disability as well. I almost had a breakdown so I do know how you feel. Basically, there just wasn’t enough of me to meet everyone’s needs. All I can say is that now mine are secondary age it’s totally different and life is transformed so it will get better.

What happened at the GP last time, if you don't mind me asking? It's really crap of them if they have made you feel you shouldn't ask for help. Sometimes there is a self referral but I think normally only for talking therapies and courses. If it's medication you want to try, or blood tests to see if hormones/thyroid/vitamins etc are all ok then you probably do need to speak to an actual GP. Sometimes the practice nurse can do some of these things and they can be more sympathetic in general.

Could you afford (and house) an au pair? An au pair is much cheaper than a nanny - because they are not qualified childcare specialists and only work part-time. An au pair could help with school runs, some housework, play with the children on some evenings and weekends to give you a break - though usually not more than 20 hours a week. They can be brilliant but they can also be a bit shit so I appreciate it is not a magic solution.

I totally get it OP. I really think that it will help to see a GP because you're not coping . My first 2 were the same , one was tired and went to bed early the other would stay awake until 11 . Then I was up at 5am with number 1 . They didn't get on and wound each other up , it's exhausting.
It's pointless me saying it will pass ,as it will , because you need some help now .

The Yotos were removed - cue screaming and shouting. Then you have to do this over and over again until they understand that both Yotos are not to be on in the same room.

saying things once and then giving up, or giving a consequence and not following through is likely to be a big part of the problem.

you (and your DH if he really is involved with parenting your dc) need to decide what behaviours are most important to change and how you’re going to do this. Pick your battles but be consistent. Be prepared for the kids to hate it at first. This is the time that’s most challenging but most important to stick to your guns.

Not having boundaries and consistency has got you to the situation that you’re all in today. Change will be hard. Not changing will be even harder in the long run.

i get that you’re running on fumes, but you have a decision to make.

I’m really sorry you’re struggling. You have to phone the doctors for an appointment today and go. Take your DD with you if you have to.