how to help? please...

Message withdrawn

i'll post something on CBT tomorrow morning MIAM. tho my experience will be a bit different from anyone elses coz of the OCD side of things

No you have not - I will! MTS, I would appreciate any info you could give me on CBT, as I am just a novice.

and i've killed the thread stone dead with my confessional there(!)

Unicorn - I had depression and OCD whilst PG, took Prozac from 30 weeks PG, and am hopefully nearly recovered, but my self-confidence has definitely taken a real battering. I had a real battle to get adequate treatment for my OCD - my GP was useless - wouldn't refer me to a psychiatrist (as she thought a psych wouldn't prescribe ADs, but would only say I should have counselling!) but fortunately the hospital obstretricians were fab and got me a referal to a psychiatrist, and I found myself a CBT therapist privately (even urgent cases in our area would take months to get an appointment!) My son's birth wasn't straightforward but I felt that it was dealt with very well by the staff; oddly enough I think my experiences of post-natal care and breastfeeding going very pearshaped have had a greater effect on me than the birth. ah well enough about me,but thank you very much for your interest.

Thanks MTS - the bit on how to help my sister is extremely encouraging. She tends to tell me how well I'm doing in comparison to her whereas I'm thinking how well she's doing in comparison to me! BTW our ds's are only a few weeeks apart in age

A very useful post MTS,you must actually have some RL experience of these areas?

Must get some sleep now.
I wish you and your family well Vict17.
keep posting.

I'm sure of it. With all your support, he will get the help he needs.

hi vict17. It sounds as if there may be some difficulties in your BIL's life (possibly issues with his parents) that run quite deep, and the counselling touched a raw nerve. Certainly some types of counselling can be quite demoralising if you are depressed, if they take you back to a bad situation in your life, without really providing you with the tools to come back up again from that experience. It sounds that if the counselling provoked such an extreme reaction that it's not the right thing for him at the moment for whatever reason. I would second MIAM's comments on cognitive behaviour therapy - although your BIL's past experiences will be relevant in terms of providing a therapist/counsellor with a history/an idea of what makes him tick, CBT it won't involve him wallowing in his past, so may still be helpful for him. A psychiatric nurse can provide counselling/cognitive therapy, so it sounds good that he is getting that level of support at home at the moment.

In terms of your sister - it sounds like she a very rough time with the birth and post-natal after care, and as if she may have been quite traumatised by it. You/your sister may find it useful to look at the birth trauma association web-site - www.birthtraumassociation.org.uk. It may help your sister if she could ask to have a meeting with the senior midwife and discuss issues/anxieties surrounding the birth; if she seems keen to talk about the birth and time in hospital it is probably best to let her get her experiences off her chest.

In terms of dealing with your sister:- her self esteem is probably extremely low at the moment; compliment her on any little achievement, on her mothering skills etc, and, if possible, encourage her to get out - to baby massage classes/mother and toddler group, or even just to pop out and get the paper to get a bit of fresh air. Also resist the urge to tell her what a wonderful time she is missing by being depressed; "common-sense" comments like that aren't any help - if it was merely a case of reasoning herself out of it, she wouldn't have a problem! maybe acknowledge the stresses of motherhood/first year/first baby etc.

hope something in this lengthy ramble is of use to you

Yes their ds was planned. I don't think he's in the right mental frame of mind to be thinking that his counseller is the one for him just yet but hopefully soon?

Vict17, I think a little ray of hope is that he has actually been to see someone. It takes a long, long time for a depressive to actually come to terms with the fact that they do have a problem, and then some time after that before they seek help. So he has already made the first steps towards recovery. But, as unicorn said, the therapist he saw wasnt the right one for him. It can be difficult finding a suitable one, and in the meantime he may find it more beneficial to try the self-help approach whilst looking for another counsellor. But, try and be positive when you are talking to your sister. I know it is hard, but he is taking the right steps.

I will pre-empt what I say, as nobody really knows ANYTHING about anyone else's life!

Nevertheless... BIL sounds overwhelmed by the prospect of bringing up his ds (was ds planned etc?)

Essentially - those feelings boil down to his own sense of self... and HIS feeling of self worth.(or lack of)

I reckon he needs counselling (but not the sort
that sends him running away from his problems)

One counsellor doesn't necessarily 'fit' all..
so perhaps he needs to try for another?

You're so right, that's what I want to scream at my sis down the phone! That she's missing the best year of her life NOW! Problem is that one of BIL's worries is how they will put him through uni now, how he will help him with his home work when he feels he knows diddly-squat. It seems to be that feeling of inadequacy that there is no talking him out of.

In 20 years time they will be more concerned about a)what he is up to...! and b)can they afford to keep him through uni etc!!
imho..
There is really no point projecting ahead - cliche here, but very true- tomorrow may not happen (* me and my little family very nearly died on the M6 this summer- makes you a bit more well, today focussed)

Today is most important - and they need to sort themselves out now.

Thanks that is really encouraging.
Unicorn - I left a message on my sisters ansaphone but obviously it's hard for her to call me. It's so desperatley sad. Their ds is so wonderful, he looks just like his father, and they are obviously not enjoying this 1st year with him. My mum worries (as do they) that in 20 years time they'll look back and think about what they missed out on.

Great, Im sure it will help. Let me know when you get it, and we can talk about it. There seems to be a lot more to your BIL's depression, possibly some issues from his past? If it is to do with his childhood, that could be why it was your sister's pregnancy that sparked it. Ofcourse, I have no idea - just a thought. If it is something along those lines, there is still every chance he can get over this. Years ago, doctors believed that if you had traumatic incidents in childhood, talking may help, but there was little you could do to recover. This new therapy says that whether or not the depression was caused by something in a persons past is largely irrelevant, because it is how the person deals with it right now that needs looking at and can be dealt with. So, there is definately light at the end of the tunnel for them both.

would love to say professionals will sort it..but at the end of the day they can only do so much.

Mental health issues are just so complex, you can't expect one answer/therapy/drug etc to cure all.

How is your sister coping with this?

I think as I said (in a sort of way) earlier, you can really only help whoever is willing to accept it.

His sister probably needs to step in and help him a bit more perhaps?

MIAM - I'll order that book from the library, I think it might be helpful

He started to go downhill when my sister got pregnant this time last year I guess it was. She has always been very up and down and had bad morning sickness on top of that. It took her a long time to tell me and I was the one who suggested he went to his gp. He has only told his sister ( who apparently brought him up), he won't tell any one else at the moment. He is the typical 'go down the pub with your mates and sink large quantities of beer' but he doesn't tell htem anything. He's so lovely, I'm scared he might do something drastic as my sister once said he's had suicidal thoughts, but surely now that the right professionals are on to him he'll be okay?

can't say- but it doesn't sound very healthy.

Was this a recommended (ie legit) therapist etc?

Is there any more to this at all (ie no question of him seeing anyone else etc?)

The latest treatment seems to be cognitive behaviour therapy. Basically, it involves changing the way you view yourself, not comparing yourself to others and changing your thought patterns from negative ones to positive ones. Im just learning about this at the moment, but it seems to be very effective.

The book I am reading is called 'Good Mood - The New Technology of Overcoming Depression' by Julian L Simon. If you could get a copy it would really help you to understand depression, and how a depressive thinks and feels. That would help you to help your BIL & SIL. And obviously, if they can read it too, it will give them both hope that their depression can be dealt with, and even possibly beaten.

Thanks unicorn. The thing that worries me is that he did talk to a 'professional someone' last week and that triggered off this 'I'm not coming home I need to sort my head out' reaction. Obviously it was his 1st session but I wonder why it triggered such a reaction?

sounds very like BIL has a bit of post traumatic stress syndrome, which I am afraid is only just being recognised in Women post birth- men haven't even had a look in on that yet.

Sounds like BIL feelings have been stirred up since the birth,- a lot of inadequacies come out once kids are produced.

Has he got any good friends (not just beer monsters etc?

Thanks MIAM - what kind of therapies are out there? The conventaional kind? I thought too that depression would be a constant in his life and felt very sad when my sister once said to me 'he's not the man I married'. Because none of us are meant to know, he puts on a brilliant happy-go-lucky front that's very hard to see through and obviously it's made harder for both of them that neither of them are 'right' There isn't a strong member in the marriage so they can't lean on each other. At the moment my sister leans heavily on my parents and BIL has his sister but sooner or later they need to learn to manage on thier own but I don't know how they can IYSWIM

not a dumb question at all...
Personally,I don't think AD'S can Cure..(obviously they can for some)but if the
depression is more than a chemical imbalance (and tbqh it usually is)then drugs can only do so much.

I think it is important to TALK!
Get things sorted out with someone who is trained to listen etc.