What’s the point in the NHS?

And be aware the venture capitalists are circulating. They want to persuade us to get rid of the NHS because they can make money. We already have venture capitalists taking over GP practices and that is the real reason you can't get an appointment

Then move to another country and pay for your treatment. The fact is, there are things that can be done for a sprain, but if they don't change the outcome compared to just resting it, what is the point? Other countries will do the treatment for the financial incentive, the NHS will not do the treatment because it will cost them money for little to no gain. Pay private or move to a different country that profitises healthcare.

We know RICE is the best outcome for a sprained, and that is what the NHS advised.
You can pay privately for unnecessary treatment in the UK. No one is preventing this

Got to say the experiences of me and my family have been mainly negative when dealing with the NHS.

Yes I got an emergency c-section to deliver DS but only after being in excruciating pain for 20 hours with a back to back labour which the epidural failed to alleviate. Post natal care was absolutely awful, the ward and bathrooms were filthy and my mum had to bring me food as apparently a slice of processed turkey, two slivers of cucumber and half a tomato was lunch.

My nan was left lying in the rain for six hours after a stroke before we gave up waiting for an ambulance and managed to get her in a car to go to hospital.

Same Nan was dropped by staff being moved from her bed to a chair causing awful injuries. Then sent off for ‘rehab’ which meant being left in bed all day except for 15 minutes with a physio twice a week. Oh and they didn’t give her prescribed levothyroxine - pretty important when you don’t have a thyroid gland.

Another Nan went into hospital for an outpatient appointment. She’d had mouth cancer and had a false plate that allowed her to speak and eat. The hospital made her remove it, then they lost it. She died 10 days later having had no food or drink in that time and completely unable to speak.

My dad died after spending days on a trolley in A&E.

My mum had her Parkinson’s dismissed as anxiety and her heart failure diagnosed as stress.

I could go on but find it all too disheartening.

There have always been people who want cosseted by healthcare, instead of taking responsibility for your own health by following proven outcomes like RICE, rest, ice, compression, elevation, for a sprained ankle.
I am much happier having a system that pushes people to take responsibility. We shouldn't have a nanny health system that costs more because some people won't take responsibility for themselves.

The point of the nhs is to provide free at the point of access healthcare to everyone. It’s to ensure health inequalities don’t exist- so two people with the same condition have the same outcome regardless of their income, and yes that does mean our taxes also support the health care of those that can’t pay tax.

unfortunately the model is far to old to support our current population who are living longer and with more complex needs, so yes it’s not functioning particularly well and needs remodelling.

you were assessed to determine if you needed immediate offloading or surgery. You didn’t. It is completely reasonable for an A&E clinician to then direct you to community resources to manage you symptoms, I admit chat gpt was poor advice but there are actually numerous digital resources that are supported by the nhs that will help people self manage and an ankle sprain is definitely something you can self manage. A scan should only be performed if the course of treatment and management is highly likely to change as a result, in your case it wouldn’t so why waste nhs money.

we need to get out of this mindset that the nhs should cart Blanche do everything for us, it simply doesn’t have the capacity. It’s there to safety net, and prioritise care for those that need it. That means offering interventions for life saving and urgent care or where people can’t self manage.

There are issues with the NHS

The problem is in this specific case the treatment the OP wants - a scan, isn't something that is likely to help her injury. She should have been provided with crutches IMO. The problem is not only do recommended treatments change over time but the exact injuries her mum could have received and circumstances (including age) would have been different. So it's hard to tell what is "shit" treatment and what is appropriate treatment.

I lived in the Netherlands and their healthcare system is good. But there is a big strand of "take some paracetamol and drink lots of water and come back in a week if you still feel bad" that foreigners complain about. It doesn't help it's not delivered with a particularly sympathetic bedside manner usually. But, very often, lots of water and a paracetamol is the most appropriate first line of treatment.

@Blakeley but the oresent situation isnthat health inequalities are becomong greater. The computer literate have better access, rhose able to self advocate have better access and there is a growing number of people who are receiving better healthcare because they can privately fund it.

Hence why I said it needs reform and that its an outdated model.

Strangely enough, I don't believe that since you went from complaining about having to buy your own crutches and google physio exercises, to claiming the doctor told you you needed to see a physio and you'd self referred, to attacking someone for their GRAMMAR because you couldn't think of anything to argue back because they made a good point, to then claiming people were saying it was only for life threatening conditions when what they were saying was the NHS is for ailments that need treatment to get better rather than rest, yet now suddenly you work for an orthopaedic team? Pretty sure if that was true it would have been in your OP or your very first counter argument, not last one.... just because the replies didn't go the way you wanted... maybe you should learn from the responses rather than get defensive and make yourself sound even worse?

If it’s not weight bearing you should get it checked, once it’s been xrayed and you know it’s not broken (like OP) then you go home and rest it. But don’t assume it’s just a sprain if you can’t walk on it.

I remember someone on MN posting in legal matters about her terminal cancer. Her first cancer treatment the staff treated her so badly, so horribly, abused her so much, hurt her a lot that when the cancer returned she didn't go back for treatment

I‘m completely with you OP - having had weak ankles myself as well as various back and muscle pains and plantar fasciitis I had previously completely given up on the NHS and gone private - in my opinion NHS is great if your leg is about to fall off or if you are dying but they will not provide you with any plan to actually nurse you back to full health - only to the point where you won’t die anymore.
In contrast I have moved to Germany which runs a national health insurance system and the difference is incredible - I got seen by GP same day for hip pain (no appointment just walk in in the morning), and given x6 physio appointments that I was then able to arrange over the following few weeks. After the physio I will go back to the GP and we will see if I require more scans or more physio or a different approach. No fobbing off or told to go and rest at home, instead a sensible and practical solution.

There have always been people who can afford to fund their own healthcare. In many cases it’s not better, it’s immediate and provided in a nicer environment by exactly the same healthcare professionals who carry out the same treatment in the NHS.

I paid for my cataract treatment which was carried out by the same surgeon in the same theatre as NHS patients. I chose the NHS theatre because it was a dedicated ophthalmic theatre with the least chance of infection. The local private hospital could only offer a general theatre. What I paid £5k for was dodging the waiting list which I was really conflicted about but my cataracts were really aggressive and I was literally going blind.

That must be a very stretched area. We have a target to see everyone face to face within 6 weeks, with a smaller group of specificc needs to be offered an appt within 2 weeks. The video consultation is a bit ridiculous - takes same amount of a professionals time as seeing in person and not as helpful for either the professional or the patient.

Yes but having experienced those in the Netherlands and Germany, you are expected to be much more independent. Eg you will be told you need physio and then left to research places that provide physio and book an appointment and sort out paying them through insurance seperate to the appointment at the hospital (depending on insurance plan this would likely also cost you some money). You would also be expected to buy a supportive boot of Amazon if it was needed I expect. That's all fine, but it doesn't fit with our expectations of the NHS and is part of the reason that the original poster was disappointed with her treatment. The "go and get your own boot and ask chat GPT" situation would still happen in Germany and the Netherlands etc. in America they would give you the boot but charge 1500 dollars for it so most people would buy it themselves

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/legal_matters/5516466-fired-without-notice-i-have-terminal-cancer-what-to-do

Look at the treatment this woman received and then go and tell me how great our NHS is

I have hypermobile Ehlers Danlos syndrome, a connective tissue disorder that means I have unstable joints (amongst other things like fragile skin, easy bruising, gastric issues, POTS & MCAS) and I have rolled my ankles and twisted my knees multiple times. Sprained/stretched and torn ligaments do not require TREATMENT, they just need time to heal.

You had an xray to check for fractures, it was all clear, the healthcare professional then told you to look up management of a sprain online (I’d not use ChatGPT because it’s actually unreliable, there are NHS advice pages online that will be helpful)

Just calm down, rest, ice, elevation, pain relief, and don’t expect it to be fully better for at least 8-10 weeks. If you have a history of this kind of injury as your GP to refer you for assessment by orthopaedics or rheumatology. But, the ankle injury you have right now does not need a scan or a boot.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/sprains-and-strains/

Well stop using the nhs and go private. We do our best . There was no need to scan you. Get over yourself

It isn't.

Private is not an option for emergencies. It's usually for diagnosis, treatment and maybe surgery of a condition - not walk-in for a sprain etc although some large private hospitals do offer that.

Most private health insurance works very much on the basis of a GP referral before they will cover the costs. Of course if you are able to pay and not use private insurance, fine.

A GP appt where I am (paid for) is around £100 or more. Physio, first app is £85.

Private is now overloaded by the NHS using private hospitals for stuff like joint replacements and by the number of people paying to go private because they can't wait ill, in pain, immobile etc for an NHS wait list.

We had a date given then withdrawn by one hospital because they were too busy with NHS work and the operating theatre was not available for our surgeon.

We were lucky enough to be able to pay for a hip replacement 7 weeks ago to avoid a wait of a year or more and our letter of complaint about the experience runs to nearly 4 full pages and our consultant thanked us for writing it. We aren't nit pickers, these were serious clinical and management issues like a non functioning heart monitor and blood left on unchanged sheets.

It's very, very worrying not to be able to get access to good timely health care anywhere, especially if you are old.