What’s the point in the NHS?

Honestly the things I’ve had to pay for privately this year is unreal.

probably about 1k of physio after tearing my peroneal tendon last year

another £500 of physio due to a frozen shoulder

£120 for a steroid injection in my frozen shoulder as i literally could not get dressed and was desperate

£350 for a private rheumatologist appt due to various issues and the waiting list was going to be getting on for a year.

£1100 for a private root canal treatment (i actually do have an nhs dentist but they refuse to do it even though it’s meant to be available on the nhs).

£350 to have an “in grown” toe nail removed. It wasn’t in grown, it was growing backwards. I had an unusual condition called retro something. Asked my gp for a podiatrist referral and they said as i don’t have diabetes I can’t see anyone. Literally the only treatment is removal, the pain was unreal, it was constantly infected and gp just used to prescribe abx.

so that’s over 3k, getting on for 4k. What would someone do who couldn’t afford it? Have the tooth pulled I guess, have six months off sick with a bad shoulder, limp around really badly and maybe permanently lose mobility. Have a constantly infected toe, be in agony with every step as the nail grows into the toe tissue. Maybe if it got gangrene the nhs would amputate 🤷‍♀️

In a lot of European countries you could get those tests done for reasonable prices, but not in the UK.

In the US, many private health insurance schemes also offer reasonably priced tests, so let's not pretend everything in the US system is horrendous.

But, in the UK you can't get these diagnostic and preventative tests done when you want or need them at a reasonable price.

Yep they’re fucking awful. My dad was investigated over a year ago for a lung growth (suspected cancer) only to be told it’s definitely not but you have throat cancer (both showed as hotspots in pet scan), ‘monitored’ every 3 months for lung each time told from an old infection. Admitted to hospital last week due to not being able to breathe, A&E doc comes out saying yep lung cancer! They are appalling. I have private healthcare through my work and wow, the difference in care, compassion, thoroughness, everything is absolutely astonishing. To think these are the same doctors / specialists that are also probably employed by the NHS but offer such a different level of care to ‘paying’ patients is so upsetting. I only wish I could have afforded it for my wider family.

@younknow

You had an xray which ruled out a fracture. A sprain is stretched or torn ligaments, so not sure why you are having a go at someone saying there is a difference.

You can't compare treatment 15 years ago to now. Healthcare changes constantly. The lastest advice for sprains is not to issue crutches, because it heals faster with early mobilisation Total avoidance (which does happen when people use aids), makes the ankle stiffen up more. I completely understand it seems backwards when you cannot weight bear at first, but in a day or so you probably will be able to put weight on it.

You follow PRICE for a few days then follow physio exercises (depending on pain tolerance). Most NHS trusts have the information for physio exercises for each sprain on their website, or provide a leaflet, so no need to be referred. Sprains take months to heal fully, even with physio.

At this early stage of your sprain, there isn't really anything else to do. The first week is the most painful. If your sprain isn't healing in the expected way then you would get referred to ortho.

I do understand why you feel a follow-up is more efficient, but in reality, it would significantly inpact the already ridiculous wait times. By the time someone has their follow-up, the majority of people wouldn't need it, but wouldnt cancel it, which is a waste of time.

The NHS treated my frozen shoulder with Naproxen and physio. All gone within about six weeks because I did the exercises religiously and was able to because the Naproxen killed the pain.

In many countries with public health care systems, you could get a private scan and private treatment for problems with foot tendons for a reasonable price, but not in the UK. In the UK, prices for diagnostic tests and elective treatment done privately are extortionate.

My husband nearly died last year due to a dissected Aorta. He had life saving surgery, followed by more stent surgey 2 months after that. He has had follow up checks and C T scans and has to go in for further surgery soon. Thats just one example of the point of the NHS as someone who has worked it in it for 18 years, I could give you thousands more example of it usefulness.

My DD had a similar injury a couple of years ago. It was only a few days after a fracture on her other ankle had healed. She had no physio for that injury either. I was sure she had broken it, it had ballooned up and bruised that much. More than when she had the fracture. She couldn’t weight bare for a few days. She is severely disabled anyway and has seizures so needs someone with her constantly. But I got her some ibulieve gel a support bandage and borrowed a wheelchair for her. With regular pain relief she was more or less back to normal after just over a week. No physio needed just lots of rest.

I had physio myself a few years ago for a pinched nerve in my neck. I could barely move my arm without constant shooting pains and had a constant feeling of pins and needles. The physio I had did the trick.

People have mentioned France and I think Norway as better healthcare models than the NHS.

A point to remember is that in both those countries they pay more tax in general than the UK. And both countries spend more on healthcare than the UK. And in France most people are paying for top up private insurance and regular 20-30% copays on top of their higher taxes.

Perhaps what is wrong with the NHS is that it is underfunded.

Those who want to end the NHS are you happy to pay more in tax for a better system and elect politicians who will commit more of their budget to healthcare?

You work for an orthopaedic team? You’re admin/clerical, aren’t you? You’ve sprained your ankle. You went to minor injuries. You were therefore seen by an ECP/ACP, not a doctor. You only waited 4 hours. You did not have to go to ED. X-ray was open. What a brilliant service. When your ankle feels better next week are you brave enough to come back on here and eat your words?

You’re complaining that you didn’t get a scan, yet you said in your second paragraph that you had an x-ray. I’ve never known such drama over a sprained ankle. If you want crutches just get some.

I have had a fractured ankle & sprained ankle the sprain was worst than the fracture very little in put into care also had fractured pelvis very little medical input. But my kidneys aren’t working very well consultant rung me Friday afternoon been in for over 24hrs had fluids been reviewed by doctors medication altered. I am an ex nhs worker, it is not always perfect but most staff go to work to make a difference. If your not happy with your care speak to PALS.

tbh, I honestly find it hard to believe that is all they said/gave you!

My partner came of his bike - fractures shoulder and 3 fractured ribs. He was given a sling, as prescribed some very nice painkillers to go with it. Given a booklet on how to care for himself with a rib injuries and went back 2 weeks after to be xrayed and discharged.

Ive never had them say check chat gpt...

In a commercial health setting how many thousands might that have cost? Ambulance ride included.
People go broke for accidents.

So it is what it is for being as cheap as it is or us (base don contributions we make etc)

It's a hard one as I have received excellent care from the NHS when I needed it. However, I can remember my friends Mum when we were in our twenties who was waiting for a Barium Meal scan as she was constantly vomiting and unable to keep any food down. She was sent her appointment back then for six months time - my friend persuaded her to pay to go privately as she felt it was too serious to wait. She had passed on before her NHS appointment date even arrived!! That was 40+ years ago!!

OP your medical naïveté is showing through.

My son had a grade 3 year on two ligaments. His club physio named the ligaments, the severity and grade. He is an elite athlete and they see this all the time. The physio called it as such.

We went to the hospital in case of break and the doctor called it the same. Exactly the same as the physio. Same level. Same tears. Same ligaments.

The club requested a private MRI (they paid). Guess what? Same ligaments, same grade, same tears..

Experienced physicians don’t need a scan to tell
if a ligament is torn or how severely.

You want treatment that doesn’t exist. You want more attention because you are hurt.

And to double down, I am from a country with universal healthcare and they would have offered you the same.

Well yes, urgent care is just that…..urgent care, long term care or continuing care would be under your GP,

same for A and E,

anything else is through your GP

I snapped a ligament in 2004, no scan, and no boot or crutches, I was told to try to walk on it as normally as possible (I couldn't at first) and it was better for healing not to have a boot or crutches. It was excruciatingly painful, but I did what they told me to and it healed in time, so I don't think that much has changed. Maybe it depends who you see?
The NHS has it's problems, but they have also saved my life on another occasion! It's a mess and needs both more funding and restructuring but be grateful we aren't in the states!

The NHS saved my life 2 years ago when I had Hodgkins lymphoma. Went on the 2 week cancer pathway when lymph nodes swelled up and wouldn’t go down. Biopsy showed cancer, I was started on aggressive chemotherapy program 2 weeks later.
Didn’t have to pay a penny for the treatment that saved me, the incredible consultants and nurses, multiple hospital stays, pet, ct scans and x rays and so many drugs to counter all the side effects (apart from tax of course!).

Because sometimes there is literally nothing that can be done & it will heal itself in time.

i completely knackered by ankle last year, basically torn all my ligaments & my foot was basically black. Treatment, paracetamol, crutches & time to heal. You don’t need physio for a bad sprain it’s just a waste of valuable NHS resources & will likely make zero difference anyway.

just use a cold compress & give it time

Americas health care is horrific. Unless you can pay thousands

as someone who lived there….

also torn ligaments in the ankle there is not much they can do, lots if rest etc, ice etc, you can get crutches on the nhs for sure,

The NHS wasn't set up to treat 70++ million for free and anyone else that rocks up .
It's not working for the majority, it's no longer working as it should.

A friend waited 4hrs in a corridor for a hip x-ray, she was in agony, we can't see a GP and 111 just tell you to go to A&E which is on average a wait of anywhere from 3hrs to 7 hours! At least where I live. Gone are the days when an A&E visit was 30 mins

New mums after care is shocking and almost non existent unless you are on the 'at risk' list or are not British, then you get seen when and how often you like. (That's info from a midwife)

No amount of money will change things , I still can't get my head around why 6 years after Covid we no longer have the NHS we had in before it? What's changed?

It cannot survive as it is, it needs to change, the French system seems to work well , as do other European countries, NHS used to be the envy of the world, but perhaps there's a reason no other country has followed suit !!!

My son had non Hodgkins Lymphoma also 2 years ago. Very similar experience.

I can't imagine worrying about medical bills/charges etc on top of everything else we all went through.

You think its bad now wait until 5-10 years time there won’t be an NHS ! I have private medical insurance but worry for the people that won’t afford be able to afford to pay for treatment

France: Has approximately 5.5 to 5.8 hospital beds per 1,000 people (roughly 550 to 580 beds per 100,000 residents), which sits well above the average for wealthy European nations. 1, 2, 3]

United Kingdom: Has approximately 2.4 to 2.5 hospital beds per 1,000 people (roughly 240 to 250 beds per 100,000 residents), ranking among the lowest capacity rates in Western Europe. 1, 2, 3]

But as I said earlier France spends a lot more on healthcare than the UK does and their citizens pay higher taxes to make that happen.

Nothing wrong with wanting the French model but it will cost more in taxes as well as most people needing private health insurance to top it up.

Maybe the UK government could try increasing its healthcare spending in line with countries like France, Norway, Netherlands etc.

Perhaps the NHS would function a lot better if it wasn’t underfunded.

It’s just a gateway to Bupa nowadays.