Is everyone, everywhere ND - I seriously am confused.

My grandfather was born in 1909. He was punished at school for being left handed and he was 64 when I realised he didn't know his left from his right. His son, my uncle, is genius-level clever in that "mad scientist" way and has hobbies that take over his life for years but then he just drops.

My DH, born in the 60s, was always in remedial classes. He thought he was thick because he struggles to read and left school with no qualifications. Shouldn't have been a surprise that 3 of our DC are dyslexic/ 2 diagnosed in adulthood as autistic and 2 got childhood diagnosis of ADHD. I was dx with ADHD in my 50s and dyscalculia in my 60s.

We've heard all this "ADHD isn't real"/ bad parenting crap since the 1990s. It gets very boring very quickly. My mum used to offer to lend out DS2 to non-believers.

We moved DS2 from a chaotic typical primary school where everyone is wandering about and making a noise to a private school where everyone sat on single desks in rows facing the teacher. It made such a difference. I do feel that the way we live now is not ND friendly so it's no surprise there are more and more people being dx. There is constant noise which you can't get away from and there is no chance of getting away from other people wherever you go.

As for violent classrooms, I was a TA in 1997 in a school where kids jumped out of windows and threw chairs. That was nearly 30 years ago.

The threshold for identification was lowered to include borderline cases who missed getting a diagnosis.

I am probably a similar age to you and agree that neurodiversities are being overdiagnosed these days and many parents are using them as an excuse for poor behaviour. However, two of my three nineties born children are at different points on the autistic spectrum and I can see (undiagnosed) autistic traits through both sides of the family. It has always been around and, if were not for high functioning autistic people, we would almost certainly still be living in caves. Looking back to my seventies schools, I can also remember several children who were seen as odd and did not fit in. They were almost certainly autistic. In fact, there was a little boy who was in my reception and second year infant classes. His behaviour was extremely difficult and he could be violent. At the time, we simply thought of him as a very naughty boy. I have vivid memories of my close to retirement second year infants teacher tying him to a chair in sheer desperation. It seems horrific but she was on her own in a classroom with nearly forty five and six year olds and, l would imagine, absolutely terrified that he was going to seriously hurt another child or himself - l can't actually remember what he was doing. He left our school and went to a special school, which was much more suitable for his needs. He was, of course, autistic.
Finally, in your list of different types of children, you mentioned that less academic people were often musicians, among other things. As a musician, l can assure you that many of us are highly academic as well as musicians. We have to be as music is far more than merely playing an instrument. One example would be the composer J.S. Bach, who was as much a mathematical genius as a musical genius. Musicians make up a higher number of people on the autistic spectrum, though.

Autism or ND is such a huge sweeping term. It covers everything from those who have relationships, survive in main stream etc, to those who are mute, can't have any sort of social interactions and just can't function in the mainstream world. It seems unfair that those who are so severely austic they genuinely can't function are classed as the same. We have all these adults with their diagnosis, and yes they have masked and struggle, but they have found channels for their skills.
What REALLY annoys me is the people that use it as an excuse " oh but they are on the waiting list for autism /adhd" like they are special and unique. Guess what, all the other 19 kids in the class are ND Too. or they have to park in the disabled bay at work so they aren't late because of their adhd. No, you are because you don't get up and leave the house on time. Set your clocks 10 minutes fast, make changes, adapt, but don't use it as an excuse! there is no such thing as NT. We are all special and unique and diverse. We all have our traits, and we are all forgetting those who really really can't cope.

To be fair, it seems to be assumed first and foremost badly behaved kids are ND rather than just being naughty kids.

But the fear of adults wasn't because children were different, it was because they were scared of violent adults? Cuff round the ear, ruler across the hands, a smack with a ruler, a blackboard eraser launched at your head?
I don't think children being excluded from school and the rest in silent submission for that reason is any healthier than what we have now.

@ThisWiseRobin

have to disagree about one thing in your post. I went to a very large comprehensive school in the early 80’s. There was lots and lots of violence on a daily basis. fights, bullying. All sorts. And if there was a “weak” teacher quite a lot of messing about unless you were in the more academic “O level” classes.

no-one was getting diagnosed with anything though.

@SupernaturalAddict I remember seeing kids with severe autism when I was young. But many parents did end up putting their children into a local institution when they became teenagers or adults and they could no longer cope. I worked with this cohort and I can remember over hearing parents discussing this about their non verbal teenage son who was strong and often violent. There was no real help for parents caring at home.

@SupernaturalAddict I remember seeing kids with severe autism when I was young. But many parents did end up putting their children into a local institution when they became teenagers or adults and they could no longer cope. I worked with this cohort and I can remember over hearing parents discussing this about their non verbal teenage son who was strong and often violent. There was no real help for parents caring at home.

It was also widely accepted that only the brightest went to University and became doctors, vets, academics etc - there was no shoving square pegs into round holes and writing students off if they did not get into Uni as not achieving their potential....most had no desire to go in the first place - it was perfectly fine to go straight into work. You could absolutely walk out the school gates on your last day and into any given apprenticeship the next. Successive Governments seem hyper fixated with everyone going to Uni no matter what instead of working with employers to fund what will ultimately be far more productive outcomes for a large majority of students. Many of my cohort at school would have fitted into the ND box but there was no labelling then and all went on to fulfilled lives and rewarding careers (some much more lucrative than their academic peer group)

I can't comment on the 70s but I went to school in the 90s. Children weren't forced in to mainstream schools, so a lot of the children with SEN were in special school, my brother being one of them. There was no big push for attendance or avoiding exclusion so those who did struggle but didn't get a place in special school either left or got excluded. I did witness a child throw a chair and threaten to assault a teacher, I never seen him in school again after that, permanent exclusion after the first (that I know of) major incident.
ND isn't new and I do see an increase in people children who are really struggling and deserve and need additional support. I will also say I do think there are a lot of self-diagnosis and I think possibly incorrect formal diagnosing going on, particularly with adults. Peri symptoms are now ADHD that people have masked all their lives. cPTSD is autism after typical childhood development. It's like people have forgot that life is hard, we're not always 100% on the ball, we will all struggle with executive functioning from time to time and throw hormones in the mix and it will get more challenging. Struggling to function after sustained abuse is a natural consequence of going through sustained abuse. Some of us will be better at organisational, socialising, managing our time, doing housework etc just like some of us will be better at art or sports. But if someone struggles with the former list, must be ND and that is taking away from genuine cases of people with autism/ADHD who are significantly impaired by their disability.

Not sure if this has already been said but no one was left handed or wrote left handed while children were routinely punished or prevented from doing so.

Well, I'm autistic. So is my dad, who is now in his 70's, his sister (also in her seventies) and his dad (who would be 110ish if he was still alive).

See a pattern?

These things have always existed, they're just less hidden away nowadays, thank goodness.

This is so much me. Although I am still too scared to try getting a diagnosis. Maybe one day.

Tell me you don't have a ND child without telling me you don't have a ND child. Idiot.

I wonder what the end game is.

If such a huge proportion of children require special adjustments, all of which are different, and many of which clash with each other, how can any school possibly cope?
If Steven wants to be allowed to get up and walk around any time he fancies (a movement break seems to be the term), and Daniel needs to be able to use his fidget toys and make noise while Archie is demand avoidant and must not be told what to do, only given suggestions , but Kieran gets upset by the noise and needs ear defenders and clear rules and Theo's excessive sense of unfairness means he objects to any of the above unless he can do it all too then it's simply not possible to have a group education system.

If everyone's child is entitled to full personalised education due to their neuro diversity or additional needs or emotional dysregulation, then group format education is dead.

And then what happens when they go to the workplace?

Schools should be allowed to have clear rules and expectations on behaviour. Some children might take longer to get there with it much like some children take longer to learn to read. But the expectation needs to be that all children by the end of key stage 1 should be sitting quietly when required, capable of raising a hand and waiting their turn, not being violent and understanding delayed gratification and the fact they aren't the centre of the universe.
If they cannot do that, they should not be in mainstream group education. It's impossible for the kids who are capable of those things to learn appropriately when other children are not.
Children can rejoin mainstream education when they have grasped the points above

Here is a good ref for the changes for Autism, i got it off another poster. Ot'll have to be okayed bymumsnet.

We moved DS2 from a chaotic typical primary school where everyone is wandering about and making a noise to a private school where everyone sat on single desks in rows facing the teacher. It made such a difference. I do feel that the way we live now is not ND friendly

I think many of us would agree with that. Calm surroundings in which to focus are important.

I think there becomes a point where it's not a diversity because it's the majority.

There's a trend for reversing diagnosis because it's a bar to some careers.

I do agree with the premise that parents with very severely disabled children must despair at the ever growing competition for limited resources.

It's not the same. That was a belief tied to Christianity that even at the time many thought was rubbish.

Absolute nonsense. The birth rate was far higher in the fifties and sixties than it is today. Forty children in a class was common and the teacher would have been the only adult in the classroom. Children born at that time knew it is would/could/should have and not would/could/should of.

My son is autistic. He isn’t violent, he doesn’t throw chairs, he is absolutely no trouble at school.
He also has no functional language, is doubly incontinent and will never live an independent life. Back in the 70s he would have been hidden from the public, maybe in some sort of institution.

Good luck finding alternate provision for all those extra kids.

OP, with respect, you seem to have a very simplistic view of life and a rose tinted, and subjective, view of the past. The past wasn’t always a kind place, there was lots of discrimination and suffering. Was life really uncomplicated? Maybe for you it was.

There absolutely would have been children sharing a classroom with you that were struggling and suffering.Perhaps all of this bypassed you in your cozy bubble.

Exactly , none of us want a “ label for our kids “ my daughter has an autism diagnosis , the way some people speak so flippantly of neurodiversity it’s like we aspire to it…believe me it wasn’t on our hope list .