Masked men at Dover - KKK vibes

I always wonder if people who wear balaclavas get a lot of spots, as I doubt they wash them between each wear. I see Nottingham is going to be banning them in certain areas.

If people think that a) stopping the boats is possible by 'using the military' in some undefined way and that b) stopping the boats will make any difference at all to anyone's every day life, I despair.

Well on a basic factual basis using the military could clearly stop the boats. You just may not like how it is done.

The answer is firstly to leave the ECHR and then off shore the processing like many EU countries are considering doing too. Remember...International law is an illusion ultimately. It only works if countries all agree to follow the requirements and if there's a sanction of some sort to back up judgements. Or a carrot. Withdraw aid to countries who refuse to take back their nationals. There's plenty of ways to stop the boats. Other countries have done it. Labour just aren't the party to do it unfortunately due to their PLP. So we wait for the next government.

Well on a basic factual basis using the military could clearly stop the boats. You just may not like how it is done.

The answer is firstly to leave the ECHR and then off shore the processing like many EU countries are considering doing too. Remember...International law is an illusion ultimately. It only works if countries all agree to follow the requirements and if there's a sanction of some sort to back up judgements. Or a carrot. Withdraw aid to countries who refuse to take back their nationals. There's plenty of ways to stop the boats. Other countries have done it. Labour just aren't the party to do it unfortunately due to their PLP. So we wait for the next government.

🤷🏼‍♀️ I have no reason to lie.

Well the steps you've set out aren't military ones. There is still the question of what the military would actually do to stop the boats.

But yes. What you say is right. We could do all of the things you suggest. It would wreck decades of alliances, rib us if soft power across the world and mark us as devoid of compassion. But we could do that all, yes.

Seems you can be kept in custody after being charged but without going to court for up to 182 days but they can apply for an extension. Is that what happened?

Well on a basic factual basis using the military could clearly stop the boats. You just may not like how it is done.

The answer is firstly to leave the ECHR and then off shore the processing like many EU countries are considering doing too. Remember...International law is an illusion ultimately. It only works if countries all agree to follow the requirements and if there's a sanction of some sort to back up judgements. Or a carrot. Withdraw aid to countries who refuse to take back their nationals. There's plenty of ways to stop the boats. Other countries have done it. Labour just aren't the party to do it unfortunately due to their PLP. So we wait for the next government.

Its a choice to be made. What soft power do we really have anyway? What countries pay attention to the UK any more? Even Mauritius seems to have us under their thumb. Surely we need to look after our own people rather than worrying about what the world thinks about us enforcing our own borders. We give too much of a shit. This isn't the 1990s. The world has changed and illegal immigration is a problem for most of Europe. Most people are worrying about their own backyard. (Unless you are someone who votes for your MP based on their views on Gaza obviously)

Well the steps you've set out aren't military ones. There is still the question of what the military would actually do to stop the boats.

But yes. What you say is right. We could do all of the things you suggest. It would wreck decades of alliances, rib us if soft power across the world and mark us as devoid of compassion. But we could do that all, yes.

Its a choice to be made. What soft power do we really have anyway? What countries pay attention to the UK any more? Even Mauritius seems to have us under their thumb. Surely we need to look after our own people rather than worrying about what the world thinks about us enforcing our own borders. We give too much of a shit. This isn't the 1990s. The world has changed and illegal immigration is a problem for most of Europe. Most people are worrying about their own backyard. (Unless you are someone who votes for your MP based on their views on Gaza obviously)

Surely we need to look after our own people rather than worrying about what the world thinks about us enforcing our own borders

Who do you mean when you say "look after our own people" though?
Because half the time racist thugs discriminate and/or attack if people are black, born here in the UK and their families been here for decades.
They see them to be "sent back" (to where?! If they and their parents too were born here?!)
Own people - loaded wording.

Looking after our own people can mean several things. In the end, putting up barriers between countries (physical or economic) leads to conflict. Removing them reduces it. Our current system is imperfect, has its problems and needs attention. But the solutions proposed by those advocating the positions you suggest (and worse) will not make us safer or more prosperous in the long run.

Own people only loaded in your own mind. In my mind (the person who actually wrote it) it means people who live in the UK legally. Not illegal immigrants who are the topic under discussion. Its not complicated.

We live in the real world though. Not utopia. And barriers are going up everywhere. Removing barriers to vast numbers of people who come into the UK and will be a drain on the state will lead to our bankruptcy. The golden goose will have been killed. I'd prefer that not to happen. I'd rather like people to be able to receive a pension and medical care and disability benefits if needed for example. So we need to be able to chose who comes in...like any normal country.

Looking after our own people can mean several things. In the end, putting up barriers between countries (physical or economic) leads to conflict. Removing them reduces it. Our current system is imperfect, has its problems and needs attention. But the solutions proposed by those advocating the positions you suggest (and worse) will not make us safer or more prosperous in the long run.

Of course. We don't disagree on that last point. Where we disagree is how to get there. I don't think that military action in the Channel and leaving the ECHR is the way forward. I think better ways include working closer with European partners within the current framework, and investing in poorer countries to mean that conflict reduces and living standards increase there.

How do people know who is in the country illegally or not just by looking at them though?
You personally might just be referring to "people who live here illegally" but many, many don't. They look at skin and make assumptions.
Reducing it to "we're only talking about illegal immigrants" is massively simplifying things. As it's not at all.

Yes, I don't disagree on the last part either. Better ways in my opinion are the ones that you mention, and not risking our human rights by leaving the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR)

Own people only loaded in your own mind. In my mind (the person who actually wrote it) it means people who live in the UK legally. Not illegal immigrants who are the topic under discussion. Its not complicated.

Of course. We don't disagree on that last point. Where we disagree is how to get there. I don't think that military action in the Channel and leaving the ECHR is the way forward. I think better ways include working closer with European partners within the current framework, and investing in poorer countries to mean that conflict reduces and living standards increase there.

'Own people' is not a phrase i would use ever, so yes it is a little more complicated than your limited view of the world

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy4zejgz3z9o

If the hard right party wins control of Germany it will be the first time since WW2. We can all see the direction of travel.

Of course. We don't disagree on that last point. Where we disagree is how to get there. I don't think that military action in the Channel and leaving the ECHR is the way forward. I think better ways include working closer with European partners within the current framework, and investing in poorer countries to mean that conflict reduces and living standards increase there.