Whole families on UC, PIP, DLA and carers' allowance for each other?

In terms of HRM DLA under the VUW criteria, evidence that is along the lines of “mum says…” wouldn’t be enough.

I think that people also need to understand that if someone is on Universal credit and Pip -that does not switch off someone's job seeking requirements if they are in the all work group. It is only LCWRA that does that.

I don't have children but I'm on adult disability payment which is the Scottish version of Pip. I suffer from PTSD anxiety and depression. The PTSD was caused by trauma in my life that lasted a relatively long time. Im on medication and I have had therapy but I am still not as mentally well as I was before those traumatic events happened to me.

I didn't get LCWRA for my mental health. I got it for physical issues.

I tried three times and I was refused three times. People might think PIP and LCWRA are easy to get but more people get it at tribunal than at the first stage or mandatory reconsideration as far as I'm aware. I don't believe DLA is easy to get either. There's a lot of evidence that has to be submitted before it's considered

The majority of people on ESA are in not requirement to look for work group.

Thats fine if you know people who are rinsing the system. That's clearly your experience. My experience of trying to get LCWRA was horrible. The process made my mental health worse. The assessor lied in the report she wrote about me. She basically stated in her report that I would be fit to work three months after a leg fracture when I had to get my leg pinned back together and couldn't weight bear for around 4 months. I lost the mandatory reconsideration and the DWP were overruled at tribunal.

I won't be trying to get LCWRA when this award runs out -its not worth the stress.

I'm not on ESA. I'm on Universal credit

DLA doesn't accept evidence from GP's. Especially in relation to high rate claims.

They expect evidence from consultants, surgeons, physios, OT, SALT etc.

Using my son as an example who gets both high rate care and high rate mobility, these are the medical professionals who provided evidence for my son's claim. As you can see, no GP.

two consultants
physio
OT
dietician
specialist nurse
hospital social worker
psychologist

I’m not trying to argue that your son is less deserving or not entitled to whatever he is receiving. My original point was that I have found in recent years that I come across many families/people who are constantly asking for medical and other supporting letters for some such ailment in order to better their circumstances. Thats not necessarily wrong or a bad thing. But that it is very noticeable. And truth be told, many of the people suffer from the same conditions.

Unfortunately it’s a cycle of special needs. Low iq parents have low iq children who are supported enough so that they become apathetic to the idea of working for a living and so the cycle continues. The problem is whether you use the carrot or the stick. No one wants the children to suffer but equally it’s unacceptable to suggest that if you can’t look after yourself without government support, it’s not the wisest decision to multiply.
The situation will only get worse as no government wants to tackle the issue. We do not need more people with special needs having more children with special needs. I don’t see a solution tbh.

I'm not going to quote the post because it's a few pages back but someone posted about PIP for "mental health". The suggestion I suppose that conditions like anxiety and depression shouldn't qualify for Pip and only the more serious mental health issues should qualify for benefits

Mental health isn't a straight line. One person with depression won't present the same as someone else will. I personally wouldn't wish having PTSD on a living soul. I actually dont get high rate ADP for my mental health. I get the daily living component. It's a fixed term award and it's being reviewed very shortly.

I could probably have applied a lot sooner but didn't believe I would qualify. People get PIP/ADP for how the condition affects their life. It's not just as simple as rocking up and saying here's a fit note. My assessor wanted to see evidence of my condition. Consultants letters. The medication I'm on.

And yes you will get people who claim what they aren't entitled to but Pip fraud runs at less than two per cent.

I'm just not sure why some people think that you should have to be suffering from psychosis or schizophrenia to get Pip. It's as if other conditions aren't really very much -mine have completely up ended my life due to the trauma that I've been through.

I know people with PTSD and CPTSD who have tried to take their own life. It's a horrible debilitating condition that I would not wish on anyone.

As for schizophrenia. It's incredibly hard to get a diagnosis. Because some people with schizophrenia go through large spells when they present as well and then go through times where they are unwell. Try telling someone who thinks they are well that they aren't. A family member of mine ticked all those boxes but was never diagnosed because he never presented as a risk to others. I used to work in homeless units and I tried more than once to get help for young people who were presenting with complex mental health issues and suicidal ideation by taking them to hospital. They were sent away every time

My relatives mental health cost him his life. Depression can also kill people. Its not just as simple as to say that only very serious mental health conditions should qualify for support.

Yes and they dont take that kind of evidence seriously
So for my sons PIP form
I have sent a copy of his
EHCP
Risk assessement from the childrens overnight respite service
Incident forms from his special school from when hes gone into crisis
I have also supllied the name of a Deputy head teacher and class teacher from his special school who know him very well and his disabillty social worker
In fact i ran out of room for all the other professionsls involved.

I have a friend who gets universal credit -her husband works full time but they qualify because of the amount they pay in rent. She has 3 disabled kids. She's just about to start her second degree. Disability can strike anyone as can mental health issues. My uncle who I referred to in my previous post was an English teacher. He had a 2:1 degree from Glasgow university. He didn't have "special needs ". He suffered from schizophrenia .

Everyone is only one accident away from disability (speaking from experience). Not all people who live in poverty have low IQs or have low IQ kids. Far from it

Loads of working people have a disability. They are not one accident away, they are already there. I get fed up if this patronising line at times.

I know not everyone can work. But my friends who work include someone with bipolar, someone deaf and partially sighted, someone deaf, someone with medicated ADHD, someone with severe mobility issues. We are not the other.

That's great that you can do that but other people with MH issues can't do that. Im sure you'll know that there are barriers to getting into work and holding a job down. My friend has 3 kids in their late teens and her youngest boy is 6. He's got ADHD and behavioural issues. She's got mental health issues and she also missed a lot of school due to having a genetic condition. She's a single parent too which brings it's own challenges.

She's on UC and LCWRA which she only got awarded recently. She's doing an ou degree. I know a lot of people on UC trying to improve their prospects by doing part time study.

I wasn't trying to be patronising. I had a pretty much life changing accident two years ago. My point was and I stand by it is that anyone can become disabled overnight. I'm also aware that disabled people work. Both those on pip and not.

My friend who has bipolar is only alive because she was sectioned three times. She was in a position where she has enough money to be able to retire early. I grew up with a relative who had serious mental health issues who took his own life so I'm very aware of how mental health issues can impact families

I say this on these types of threads a lot (and there are so many of them!), but I'll also expand it for context:

• Only 1.36% of working aged households have never worked www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/workingandworklesshouseholds/januarytomarch2026&ved=2ahUKEwiRy7qizOGWAxX8WEEAHUlXB7gQ1fkOegoIAggACAEIHBAO&opi=89978449&cd&psig=AOvVaw0FGjmvGi0WnrzJieWMVPzI&ust=1789046651487000" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ONS statistics

• The current unemployment rate is 4.9%.www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/uklabourmarket/august2026&ved=2ahUKEwjEt8yYzeGWAxXZYEEAHQJBHk4Qg5wRegoIAggACAEIDxAC&opi=89978449&cd&psig=AOvVaw2K5Khq7uNieKNH5Gb2CIy_&ust=1789046899244000" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ONS
• There are 2.5 unemployed people per vacancy in the UK Vacancy statistics

So, we can summarise this as:

• There are not enough jobs, even if the parents of children with SEN could find suitable childcare.
• The number of households where nobody has ever worked is incredibly low

If there are 2.5 jobs for every vacancy, who is going to choose the candidate who has obvious limitations? Yes, yes, I know, in fantasy land disability discrimination is illegal and doesn't happen. Reality, it happens time and time again.

Only 14% of autistic adults are in full time work <a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&rct=j&url=www.autism.org.uk/what-we-do/news/the-buckland-review-of-autism-employment-is-publis&ved=2ahUKEwiz-MfLzuGWAxX4UkEAHfDwKGEQ1fkOegoIAggACAAIHBBN&opi=89978449&cd&psig=AOvVaw0IPc_Xe74HizwfBKSCwX3u&ust=1789047274853000" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Autism.org

People can moan about the feckless, apathetic SEN population, but the reality is that society is most of the problem. They want people with SEN to work, but not with them. They have to pay minimum wage, so they'll choose the person who can do all of the job, all of the time, in the speed they want them to, over the person who takes longer, can't do it all, or can't do it all the time. They want people to be educated, but set arbitrary barriers that make it impossible.

For example, DD2 has been at a special school. Her special interest is animals. She has a huge knowledge of them. She has kept sheep, done work experience at a veterinary surgery and a dairy farm, and has level 1 qualifications in animal based vocational studies. She still has to study the Level 1 animal care course at college, because they have set a benchmark for admission to the level 2 course with qualifications that she hasn't got. She is learning about legislation she already knows, and watching videos of a man pretending to be a cat to demonstrate restraint, when she has corralled unwilling sheep for flystrike treatment, shearing and hoof trimming. It's fine, she's motivated and she'll do it, but it's a fine example of how her individual profile hasn't been understood.

Queen of sweeping generalisations . Lazy and narrow observation .

I posted similar on another thread today. I used to live in a housing estate where most people were on benefits. I had neighbours who were users and dealers. The woman in question had 6 kids. One is dead -stabbed to death. Her two boys one 23 and the other 28 currently in jail. Her three girls -all pregnant before the age of 18. Im not trying to criticise young mums. My mum was 19 when she had me. But this is a cycle that some families get trapped in. They replicate the generation before them. It's all they know.

Her partner is dead -overdose. She's about 47. I saw her a couple of years ago working behind the bar of a pub for supporters of the football club I support. She was looking really well. I saw her a few weeks ago at a community table I use and she looked drastic.

I come from a working class single parent family and my life is very different -but I don't know what my life would have been like growing up in a home where my parents used and sold drugs.

My point is that with DLA, you don't just go to the GP, have them write whatever you claim and wham, high rate care and high rate mobility. My son's needs are too high for a GP's input hence the fact he gets high rate DLA in the first place.

Having mental health issues can make people reclusive and lack confidence. That's been my experience over the last few years. So basically your experience with these parents. They are all on UC for anxiety and MH. Their kids all get DLA and they all claim carers? So they are essentially just clones of one another ?

That wasn't my mum's experience of teaching in a primary school in a working class area. It sounds like you work in an area of very high deprivation and in that case it's more likely that a large proportion of parents will be on benefits

And for every Matthew Johnson out there there's many of us who simply aren't believed by the medical professional. I have something which is classed as an incidental finding and all medical literature says it doesn't cause any problems. Yet I'm on groups where people are reporting the same symptoms. We're told the cause isn't this incidental finding but when asked why we have these symptoms no one can explain why we have these symptoms

I have a friend whose DD was taken away from her because of alleged neglect and making stuff up...even when her DDs father was saying the same thing. Her child has a rare syndrome which is very misunderstood. My friend has been accused of having mental health problems because of it. But she's never been offered help for the mental health problems they claim she has

@TigerRag what syndrome does she have that led to her being taken into care?

Has she tried to seek help for her mental health?

In terms of saving tax-payers money (which is the evident priority) and the ‘scam’ of those entitled to PIP also claiming CA for husbands/wives with different disabilities - have PP considered that if this was not possible it would mean that more people would be forced to apply for adult social care assessment so that these necessary services were provided (thanks to tax payers) at extra cost? So instead of costing £81 a week it would cost hundreds?

Family carers save the tax payer a great deal of money providing care at cut price.

When it comes to disability all the alternatives cost more - especially if you take away family care. Hence the focus on changing qualifying criteria - it won’t reduce actual need but will push families to meet need - may mean a family member is not able to remain in work - and those without family support to rely more heavily on state funded support.

All to say it will not reduce cost to the taxpayer but may well increase it if we look at costs overall.

Is this really a financial issue or a belief in punishing the perceived ‘undeserving’ so that some people feel better? Ie I pretended it was all about fiscal responsibility but really I just want people worse off than me to suffer. Government spending overall is boring but I’m heavily invested in small boats, NEETS and anything to do with benefits. ‘The poor and the needy are selfish and greedy’.

@PocketSand most would not meet criteria for paid carers. Most people have to pay for their own carers.
The local authority certainly would not pay for carers for children, parents are expected to do that. Although you might if you are lucky get some respite care.
For adults carers do the bare minimum of getting people up, bathed, dressed and fed. And the threshold is high, higher than pip. And most people have to at minimum pay part of the cost. A lot all.