To think in life being a nice, good person rarely counts for much?

I think there's a critical distinction between "good" and "nice". They're not the same thing, in fact they are often diametrically opposed.

"Good" is your moral compass, your trustworthiness, your loyalty, your spine, your ability to deliver on promises etc. That's a quality which in my experience people really do value long term (although it may not be something which will make you shine in the moment).

"Nice" is very different. Nice is often just a social front which people put on to enable them to get along or to stop themselves being disliked.

I'm always a bit sceptical of people who are overly "nice": very often they fall into one of two categories: either they are weak and want to be liked above all else (that doesn't make them bad, just weak and needy and hard to be around) or they are cynical.

So, if "niceness" isn't rewarded by society, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.

Hmmm. People please send to have different meanings for different people. I have described myself as such and it means that I am thoughtful of how my words and actions can affect others and I will try to amend them if they might cause hurt or upset. It doesn’t mean I am disingenuous or fake.

People pleasers are disingenuous and fake though.

The definition of a people pleaser is A “people pleaser” personality means a person feels a strong urge to please others, even at their own expense. They may feel that their wants and needs do not matter or alter their personality around others.

This is exactly why people dont tend to want to be friends with people pleasers - leading them to cry "but why dont people want to be my friend??? I am always so helpful and kind- I dont get it" and it's exactly because they dont come across as authentic.

Being nice, honest and a decent person does not mean being a doormat.

You can have good boundaries and stand up to people who want to take advantage of your kindness.

I don't want to spend time around drama queen, selfish and narcissistic individuals, bullies and users. I don't care about whatever talent, money or success they might have, life lis too short to spend it around assholes...

I try to be a decent person because I want to be able to look at myself in the mirror and know that I have done the best I can to be a worthy human being.

Frankly those bullies might look like they are successful but they are just empty and miserable in themselves.

Happy and fulfilled people don't feel the need to behave like dicks, they are too busy enjoying their life.

Do you think the likes of Elon Musk or Trump are genuinely happy? they seem to me to be some of the most miserable, soulless people on earth who always want more power and more money to try to fill the void inside and fail miserably so they take it out on the rest of the world...

In defence of people pleasers, a lot seem to end up that way due to a childhood which was abusive or unpredictable in some way. Their needs were not met and standing up for themselves could be met with really serious consequences. So they avoid confrontation and “freeze or fawn” if it does occur.

Being a people pleaser doesn’t work of course as a strategy in adult life, but I understand how people get there.

@marbIehallsok so I think my understanding of people please may not be correct. I do not change myself to please others, no do I shift my boundaries to fit with others expectations. But I do treat people respectfully, I take responsibility for my actions and I would never intentionally seek to upset or offend someone unless they had behaved badly themselves.

I think it holds value to be kind and decent, but I also think it is important to maintain boundaries with mostly everyone. I find people treat you much better if they firmly understand this and know not to cross the line. Took me a long time to work this out.

@Umbcordof course they don’t but they might describe themselves as ambitious, determined, charismatic, decisive, fearless, adaptable, persuasive, cool-headed, independent, magnetic, unstoppable etc etc.

All positive attributes but if underpinned by selfishness - which of course won’t be listed - then you’ve got a sociopath on your hands.

@whistlesandbellsi agree with this 💯.

I am discovering how often people discourage you from asserting boundaries though to keep the peace (and then nudge into the coward category if I stick to my original summary).

Or a completely healthy personality.

It takes substantially more than those traits + selfishness to meet the diagnostic criteria of a personality disorder.

I think you’re both wrong & right at the same time. Sometimes nasty people get away with it, because they intimidate others or are prized for their talents, but not always. Good people will see through them & not like them for it.

Nice people won’t have much time for unpleasant people.

Some people are very charming and manipulative and are good at manipulating others into saying things and doing their dirty work for them . People tend to side with them out of fear of being targeted next . They are good at ingratiating themselves with people who have influence who think they are wonderful and can talk their way out of trouble and blame others . It’s so frustrating dealing with these people because people in positions of authority , power and influence think they are great .

Oh I completely agree!

My mum was a huge people pleaser- she was constantly worried about what others thought of her, very anxious, could never say no, spent her entire life worrying about whether other people liked her or not, it was heartbreakingly sad.

I also know that she suppressed a lot of her anger/resentment/real feelings because she could never be truly honest with people about her needs for fear they'd be angry with her and I firmly believe it caused a lot of the physical illnesses she suffered from throughout her life.

The sad thing is- genuine confidence and healthy self esteem is the thing people are most attracted to in friendships, not someone running themselves into the ground trying to "earn" friendship.

No they don’t . I worked with someone like that , everyone fawned over her but when she left she was dropped like a hot stone . I asked one of her cronies if she was staying in touch with this Bitch and her reply was” No too much drama .” This is someone who holidayed with her as well !

In a nutshell : People tend to fall into two categories- givers or takers .

Let me guess- you just happen to be one of life's "givers" right?

🤭🤣

100 percent the case

It does directly help you though, it builds self respect, which is essential to be happy or successful.

It depends on what your reasons and expectations of being nice and good. If you are nice and good simply because that’s your character, you’ll probably be okay. You can still have boundaries and advocate for yourself and others. If you expect some kind of reward or recognition for being nice and being good, you are inviting disappointment and resentment.