AIBU to question a pool asking my four-year-old daughter to cover up?

It is ridiculous... what is a top for on a 4 year old? I cant believe they said this.

Really? I don't understand what you don't get?

As an ADULT wrestling a full swimming costume up and down, to get dressed or to pee, is a bit of a faff. They have straps, are usually made of very tight material, and are even harder to maneuver out of when wet. Whereas pulling down a pair of bikini bottoms is very easy.

OP has explained several times that she was taking two very small children swimming on her own, so just wanted to make things as easy as possible. Her dd can change into/out of a pair of bikini bottoms on her own, but couldn't do the same with a full swimsuit. Therefore it makes sense to just let her wear the bottoms.

Nobody would bat an eyelid if a small boy was just wearing swimming bottoms in the pool, if anything they would stare more if he had a bikini type top on, so why on earth does it make any difference for OP's dd to do the same, given at FOUR there will be absolutely no difference in the appearance of their chests? In fact, if OP had put her dd in trunks rather than bikini bottoms (presuming her hair wasn't in pigtails or whatever), everyone would probably have just assumed she was a boy.

The rest of the population manage perfectly well this is beyond ridiculous

Good god prude british people

I live in Europe and now one would give a shit about that. And no we don't have more pedophiles (judging by the school uniform threads):
Tell this freak to do one... why is he looking at your daughter this way 😶

Tell this freak to do one... why is he looking at your daughter this way

It was a woman

They come in different sizes. They don't have to be "very tight". Nothing wrong with what her daughter was wearing but putting on a swimming costume really isn't difficult.

Still applies
Why would anybody look at a child this way?

why is this relevant?
they weren't outside in the sun!

'It's normally just easier and cheaper to have one or two outfits.'
Again, also not relevant - why is is what other people find easier and cheaper of any relevance to OP - she might be easily be able to afford multiple different swimwear options. Besides which bikini bottoms plus rash vest, and just bikini bottoms ARE the same outfit! Just because she's not wearing the rash vest on this occasion doesn't magically make it a completely different outfit and thus more expensive

My daughter also learnt the 'these are my private parts' song- which gestures to their chest, and their pants area and says 'nobody should see them, nobody should touch them, nobody should feel them'. She is five but she would be really uncomfortable if I suggested going topless in public. Even my 9 year old son- who has quite a slim muscular build from his martial arts classes and no hang up on what he looks like- tells me he would feel weird swimming without a rash vest on. He knows it's an option but hasn't chosen to go in without one yet. But then he always had his top covered to swim from a baby just like his sister.

I also think that many people on this thread do not understand what sexualising children means! Asking a 4 year old girl to 'cover up' is absolutely sexualising her. You're applying post pubescent concepts to a prepubescent child - that is sexualising a child!! A 4 year old girl has nothing 'cover up' in her top half. Those that find it inappropriate or uncomfortable need to have word with themselves.

Because it's social convention that women and girls cover their top halves whereas men and boys don't have to. It doesn't make sense for kids that young but it's what people are used to/expect. I don't think there was anything sinister in it.

Well, I'm a fully grown adult, with good co-ordination, flexibility and mobility and in good health, and I would say out of every single outfit I own my swimming costume is the hardest thing to change in and out of, so it makes sense to me that it's hard for a four year old!

Of course it's all relative, I wouldn't say it's difficult, but I refuse to believe that anyone can genuinely say pulling up bikini bottoms isn't easier!

And of course they are supposed to be tight! Going swimming in a baggy suit is uncomfortable, slows you down and risks flashing what you're trying to hide! If they weren't supposed to be tight why did we ever bother moving from knitted woollen swimsuits to elastane type ones?

In France this summer I was surprised to see children aged 5-6, after a swimming class, change out of their swimsuits at the poolside, so they were naked while they changed into dry clothes, in an area that anyone could view (it was a public leisure pool with a cafe that overlooked that area, the cafe was open to the general public not just swimmers). There was plenty of changing room space so no idea why they wouldn't have taken the dcs there. That would never be acceptable in the UK so they clearly have very different values.

But incidentally all the girls we saw there, of any age including babies, were wearing one piece swimsuits, or sunsuits (as some of the pools were outdoors).

I have taken two small children, or a baby and a 4 year old on my own swimming many many many times - at no point have i ever thought small DD is hyper lively so i shouldn't attempt to put a swimming costume on her, bit lazy and I honestly don't recall ever seeing a 4 year old girl without a swimming costume.

Are tankini suits common in the UK? The two-piece swimsuits for girls where the top part is a tank top, as opposed to a “bra” for little girls with no breasts? I understand not wanting to put a little girl in a bra top.

I think that once a little girl is old enough to be taught that some body parts are private, it’s a good idea to have her cover her chest in public, because that will be the expectation for the rest of her life.

She’s a little girl, not a political statement. Just put a standard swimming costume on her and let her enjoy her time in the pool. I disagree with sexism as much as anyone else but leave your daughter out of it.

The child was not wearing an item of clothing which is normally worn in that place. It isn’t looking at a child in a sexual way to think “how odd, girls normally wear tops in here”. You can reasonably argue it is part of a wider culture of expecting women and girls to cover up body parts when men and boys don’t have to, but that isn’t the same as accusing an individual of thinking sexual thoughts about a child. If the children weren’t wearing bottoms would you say the same? Because there’s nothing inherently wrong with small children being naked, and it was completely normal on the beach when I was young. People would definitely think it odd these days though.

I think you also misunderstand what sexualising a child means. It is not the same thing as having sexual thoughts about a child. It's applying post pubescent concepts to prepubertal children. A 4 year old has nothing to cover up in her top half. Also covering up bottom halves is basic hygiene at a leisure centre. Besides, exposed genitalia is NOT the same thing as having a bare chest as a 4 year old girl.

Because it starts like that. Then it progresses to things like the dance college local to me where the male uniform is still white t-shirt and black shorts but the girls' uniform is now fishnets, heels, hot pants, crop top and bright red lipstick. For class. Every day. Because 'that's what the industry expects'. Society starts ingraining differences early and that's the kind of thing we end up accepting. I would have loved to wear shorts and t-shirt for dance classes but it never even occured to me that it was an option for a girl.

Having said that, I can see why leisure centres have to have a blanket rule for girls. Girls can start developing breasts at 8 or still be competely flat chested at 13. What staff member wants to start a conversation with a girl or their parent about whether or not they could be viewed as having breast tissue or not?! Easier to just follow convention.

This happened with my niece in Disney, Orlando about 20 years ago, she was around 6 years old. Staff asked us to put a top on her when we were at the pool. I remember thinking that it was all innocent, but their take was about the risk of pervs ogling kids or taking photos.

After spotting a man hiding behind a notice board and taking sneaky photos of children getting off a tram to go and see a children's show at the MEN arena a few years ago, I totally get it. It is a sad indictment of the world we live in today.

I understand your concern but I do not think paedophiles are discouraged by little girls covering their chests. I see no good reason to differentiate how we dress boys and girls or how we educate them re safeguarding when they are little. All children tend to want more body privacy as they get towards the years before puberty and their behaviour regards eg running around with few/no clothes on at the beach changes spontaneously. The specific risks to girls re their developing bodies are more appropriately addressed when they are a bit older. If you do not cover your son's chest or talk to him about it at age 4 or 6 there is no need to do so with your daughter of the same age. In fact, I would go so far as to say it is harmful to girls to over focus on their bodies/treat their bodies differently from boys when they are very young. If there is any evidence that the uncovered prepubescent female chest raises risks for girls more than it does for boys obviously I would differentiate but otherwise I think it is really important that both little boys and girls enjoy their bodies and beach/waterplay unfettered by these concerns. I hope it goes without saying that there obviously do need to be conversations with small children about the privacy of their genital areas etc.

This is inherently problematic - if someone is in trouble then their modesty is not what is important.

Women are over 30% less likely to receive timely CPR in a medical emergency because most initial emergency care is usually bystander CPR and people are worried about touching a woman’s chest. Women are also less likely to receive defibrillation successfully from a public defib because people are unwilling to take off someone’s bra, and you can’t shock someone’s heart properly with metal underwires…. https://www.sja.org.uk/cpr-bra/

They should be a snug fit but they don't need to be so tight that they are hard to get on and off. There shouldn't be any need for wrestling or special manoeuvres.

We have the opposite rule in Germany. Nobody has to wear at top but most women/older girls choose to wear a bikini top or one piece swim suit.