To think friendship is hard for childless/childfree women

honestly, parenting isn't typically as hard as your finding it. unless you're a lone parent, or you have multiple kids with complex needs, it isn't this hard to make some time away from them. if your anxiety etc is making you feel like it's impossible, then I'd really advise you to get help

your breastfeeding which obviously makes a difference but presumably after 6 months you'll nurse less and less and won't be nursing all through the day. even if it isn't travelling far to see a friend, why can you not manage a coffee in a coffee shop near you? or a meal in a restaurant in the near town?

you talk as though 24 hours away requires miloarty planning, which makes me think you are struggling more, maybe with pnd etc. than you relaise

I found childcare exactly that hard when my dc were little. Babies are very different. Please don't tell other women what their experiences are.

Suggesting another woman has pnd because they found caring for a newborn tough is honestly horrible.

meh. I have kids. one with complex medical needs then twins. eldest has autism and twins, well we'll see if they grow out of the ADHD check list.
I'm just about to go out for the day. ok, it's a volunteer shift in a kitchen, but it could be coffee. next weekend it's an overnight for a mates birthday. October it's 3 nights with my girlfriends in another part of the country.
it's doable cos DH doesn't work weekends. oh, and is a parent not a lazy entitled man who thinks sperm was all he needs to give.

now, if you're a lone parent without a village, it's always going to be hard and good friends will come to you. if you have kids with really complex needs but a partner / village, it might mean you're up for dinner but not a weekend away.

but honestly I had a non verbal kid with complex needs and twin babies and the fight for survival period was exactly WHY DH made sure I was able to get out for a few hours. and the hard work is exactly WHY DH does his share and we both get time out.

ger multiple messages don't read like someone going through a tough newborn phase, but like someone with a lack of accessible support who is drowning in the murk of feeling like this will never get easier. and honestly, I wish someone had told me that this isn't how it's meant to feel, that this isn't all perfectly great and a sign you're in a healthy place.

well, no, obviously, that's literally the exact point she's making! She specified in her OP, she hasn't seen most of her friends for eight months because they (understandably, but not great for her) prioritise their kids. Then when they do meet up it's half-finished conversations constantly interjected with 'Noah! Stop that! Sorry what were you saying...No! Noah!' So no, not much 'pleasure' at all.

I completely agree with you OP, it does suck. I think the problem is that when you have kids you have an automatic influx of new potential friends in the same situation as you - baby groups, then nursery, school, etc. But there's no automatic equivalent for the child free. All you can do is keep trying different groups - there will be some that will be closer to your demographic (although also there's nothing wrong with branching out and making friends 10/20 years older or younger than you as well!).

You might find more luck specifically focussing on child-free groups, even if that means taking the plunge and creating one yourself. There was a huge child-free women group in my old city, not one in my new one but I jointed a FB group called '(name of local area) girls' - the membership probably is slightly younger but there are frequent posts from people asking 'is anyone in their 30s interested in X,' or 'Is there anyone over 40 here,' and they get a group together.

It also depends on the type of hobby/activity as well - something like the gym you might get parents who can just about squeeze an hour in, but things that are a bit more intense (like outdoor rock climbing, long hikes, etc), or groups aimed around travelling, will naturally have a higher percentage of people with, not fewer commitments exactly because I hate it when people assume childfree people have nothing to worry about in their lives, but often a bit more flexibility.

well, no, obviously, that's literally the exact point she's making! She specified in her OP, she hasn't seen most of her friends for eight months because they (understandably, but not great for her) prioritise their kids. Then when they do meet up it's half-finished conversations constantly interjected with 'Noah! Stop that! Sorry what were you saying...No! Noah!' So no, not much 'pleasure' at all.

Well she didn't say all of that, so I don't think it was obvious at all.

Literally the second line in the opening post is "My school friends mostly have children now and I last saw them in December."

If you never see someone, you don't have their company, pleasurable or otherwise. I don't see how it could possibly have been spelled out any clearer.

I don't know why you're getting snarky with me when all I did was ask OP a question that was nothing to do with you.

Yes, she said she hadn't seen them since December. We don't know the exact ins and outs of why that is - she might have decided that she's no longer willing to see them unless they travel to her 50% of the time. I was just, you know, exploring the issue. The rest of the stuff about interruptions you just made up.

I’ve got two kids and pregnant. I feel exactly the same so I don’t think it’s a kid/no kid thing. I’ve got three boys and crave female company but mainly only have acquaintances left as many closer friends moved far away and now it’s hard to even get a text out of them.

Are men incapable of ever doing bath time/bedtime?

That’s not really the point she was making, though.

I thought that post was a good one which explained a lot of my own feelings well. By the end of the day I’m just done in, to be honest. I know this will change in time but for now it’s where I’m at.

It's so damned hard isn't it. I'm 42 without kids and whilst most of my friends are also non parents, making friends in this new city has been difficult for the reasons you outline. Yes I'm open to being friends with people of all ages and I do indeed have friends in their sixties, but that doesn't stop it feeling alienating when you turn up to a group and you're the ONLY one over 30 or under 55.

The thing is, we're not even all that rare! One in five of us will hit 45 without having given birth, so how are we not finding each other? Do we need to set up a "between standard club age groups" social club?

No, that's fair enough. I think I was reacting to the undercurrent I detect in these discussions sometimes suggesting that partners of mums taking care of their own children is somehow unthinkable. I also know that these partners won't always be male, but I'd bet a good amount of money that 99% of the feckless ones are.

It’s nice to have friends of all ages. My youngest close friend is about 20 years younger than me (she is child free) and my oldest close friend is over 20 years older than me (she has great grandchildren!). Both have lots of time for friendship.
When kids leave home their parents often invest more time in friendships again so it’s possible that old friendships will wax and wane over time.
I think hanging out with a friend who has young kids can be frustrating if you are looking for the level of interest, mutual support and connection you had previously.

@Tokek I don’t disagree to be fair.

I was 40 when I had my first child so thought the ship had sailed if you like. I didn’t realise how much work little children were. It was easy, surely, let them run round a park for a bit, they go to bed early, what is there to worry about? Ha.

Completely understand. I'm 37 and childfree by choice. I'm lucky that one of my closest long term friends is also in the same boat, so we do a lot together. But it is hard maintaining friendships with people with kids.

Friendship should never be 100% one sided, no matter what the circumstances. If you're constantly the one putting in effort and consistently getting nothing back, they've only got themselves to blame when you ghost them.

I've learned to enjoy my own company over the years. I go to the cinema, walks, cafes, shopping, solo. I once done a 3 day trip to Lisbon and a day trip to Edinburgh solo, and although extremely nervous, found I enjoyed both. I've wanted to do another solo trip but funds have stopped me rather than anything else - single supplements suck!

Maybe online groups relating to your hobbies? There's groups on reddit for everything. Even if it's not real life interactions, it still can help not to feel alone.

I think you did hit a nerve, but ignore it. Maybe they feel guilty about the loss of their own friendships

I had my son in my late teens, no car and friends all studying or travelling to various faraway places. It was incredibly easy to bundle him in a push chair and take him on whatever adventures I wanted. I worked hard to keep my friendships alive.

Now the tables have turned and I have an older teenager whilst my friends have young children, I dont see them for dust.

If people want to make the time, they will regardless of time, distance or any other excuse.

It's been hard trying to form new friendships, but it does happen. Don't give up!

I’m 47 and childfree. All but one of my friendships have survived those friends becoming parents and raising children, and have endured through the death of a child, severe SEN, serious illness in children, infidelity, divorce etc. Those friends have rallied round and supported me at times of need in my life. And we’ve all been there for good times too, not just the bad.

The friendship that didn’t last is the one who went into full mummy martyr mode from before she even gave birth. The ‘first woman to ever have a child’ syndrome. The ‘you can’t possibly understand how tired I am’ trope. She sacrificed her identity, friends, career and marriage at the altar of martyred mummy and now 20 years later she’s wondering how it all went wrong.

If people want to maintain friendships, they will. There will be changes, obviously, and these will be necessary on both sides, but it is absolutely possible to be a parent and a decent friend.

I empathise with OP. I was one of the last of my group of friends to have kids, and I remember joining them at parks, soft plays, etc and while I did see them outside of that, it wasn't the same as before- more occasional meet-ups, etc and I remember feeling fed up about it and quite lonely, especially because they made new mum friends, who they did seem to have time for.

However, having had kids, who are now becoming teenagers. I now appreciate -

1. It can be really hard to maintain friendships in the same way during those early years, so I'd expect some adjustment of expectations on both sides. My husband was happy to have the kids, and I did see single/childfree friends alone, but not as frequently as before and yes, I did also ask if they could join me at parks etc and they did, but it wasn't the same as pre-kids.

2. It can also be hard being the 'mum of young kids' amongst single/childfree friends, I couldn't always make meet ups (as above), but still felt sad about not joining or not being available for impromput get togethers. Or when I did go, I felt like such a frump and out of touch with all the places to go and how to dress and my chat felt so domestic and mundane and not really part of it, so I'd think about that perspective too.

3. There is another side to those early years and some (not all) of those friendships that were a bit more on hold have come back, now that our kids are getting older. I noticed some of those that had kids earlier started getting in touch more, and as my kids have got older, I've more time to reconnect with people. That's been lovely - keeping some connection to some degree definitely helped, even if it wasn't quite the same. Additionally, some of those childfree friends now have young kids and don't quite have time in the same way for me anymore (it all goes around!), but I know we'll be in touch more down the line.

4. Wherever you're at, you need friends who are in the same situation as well. I treasured some of the mum friends I made, it was great to have social connection when looking after the kids. Some have gone on to become close friends, some have faded, as maybe the relationship was centred more around us doing stuff with the kids, and working hours have picked up, so there's less time during the week,

Equally, if you don't have kids, you need friends who are in the same situation, and if most of your old friends are off having children, it means working to find new ones who are also childfree (or have older children!). It sounds like you're doing all the right things and I'd keep persisting. Most of the time with clubs and groups etc (and I'd include baby/toddler groups and classes in this) is that mostly they are just fine and you meet one or two people you get on with, in which case just steadily build up contact outside of the group and see how you get on. It takes time to make an old friend. Occasionally you hit the jackpot though and find a group that just gels, so keep exploring. Good luck.

So true. I had 3 kids. Most of my friends were and still are child free. And will stay child free

I met up with friends at lunchtimes from work, often had them over to my house once the kids were in bed or got a babysitter to go out. Very rare I met up with friends with kids in tow once they were past small babyhood. I never really did " mummy friends" as wanted adult conversation not hearing about other people's kids

Not childfree here, but I think it could be hard in general. When I had mine (at 20) I was quickly dropped by my ‘friends’ and never made new ones (except one who was not even close to local so I can’t spend much time with)

I wouldn’t specifically look for childfree people, maybe just people like me who are in their 30s (or early 40s) but have kids who are almost grown. Otherwise there is a risk you find some childfree people who end up having kids pretty quickly afterwards.

Though as to the how…honestly it’s lost on me too, I’m a person with just one solitary friend, and my husband only has 2 too so yeah, not easy.

I have a friend of 20+ years and I can honestly only remember her coming to one of my houses once. I have lived in my current house 6
years and she has NEVER been here despite multiple invites. I am
always expected to go and meet her in the city. I hate the city. It becomes tiresome and I am a bit done with it to be honest

One of the problems is that you need repeated contact to make a friend. I read somewhere it was like 100 hours or something to become a good friend.

It's why its easy to make friends at school and college because you are in contact with other people and the same people all the time.

when you are older it is really only work where you get that or through anything you attend regularly like a choir or a class or a church or volunteering in the same place with others. Unless you have kids where you get it at NCT, the school gates every day if you are picking up kids yourself and want to chat and when your kids meet their friends.

I am surprised you are going to soft play - really? is that how you actually want to spend your free time? If someone isn't going to make any effort for you, maybe you should look elsewhere. From the outside it looks like you are desperate to cling onto a friendship that you have outgrown, otherwise why are you not saying no thanks to places that are deadly dull even if you are with your own children.

You can find friends and you would be better off with friends in a similar life position to you. Find something you like that you can do regularly and do a couple of things

Eventually the ones with young children will be empty nesters or divorced and hunting around for you again. It comes back around.

I feel for you but honestly friends in 30s/40s is hard regardless of whether you have kids. Whilst those with kids it appears we have a social life, it is actually just weekends of play dates or birthday parties with our kids friends parents. I also don’t think you realise how hard it is to travel to see someone and all the organisation (childcare, other parent or travel with kids). It’s exhausting. Personally I would embrace the time you have and do things you find fun (activities or clubs) and make friends there.

I just wanted to say that I am in the exact same situation as you. All my friends have young kids under 3 and it’s so difficult trying to organise meeting up, and then it generally tends to be a park or soft play. It’s impossible to catch up properly as the conversation is totally interrupted. I am hoping if I hang in there then it’ll start to get a bit easier.

Interesting I have observed that my husbands social life has hardly changed despite his friends becoming Dad’s - they still go out for drinks and weekends away etc.

I have found it nearly impossible to meet other childfree women - even joining clubs and activities I just can’t seem to meet them.

It honestly has been really tough so I completely sympathise with you. Feel free to DM if you want to chat.