To think friendship is hard for childless/childfree women

Are you in Liverpool? I met my 2 best friends through them we are 35 - 40. DM me xx

Your best friend must have the patience of a bloody saint, because there is no way on this planet I would be spending my time as a child-free adult hanging out with someone else’s kids.

Shes amazing, the most genuine, lovely person, I am so lucky 🥰

My long-standing best friend is child free and we’ve never had issues wrt my having children (now adults themselves). She’s been more of an aunt figure and I made sure I saw her on her own regularly too. Dh would be w the DC or she’d come round. I def didn’t except her to come to soft play, that’s for sure!!

She also had a little group of single women to hang with in our 20s/30s (sadly all have partners now except her - not all have kids though).

quite frankly your friends sound a bit rubbish. How long have you known them?

We're only 31, who knows if she'll have children. We've never been to soft play together.

This weekend will be a local food and drink festival, we go to coffee shops for croissants, to the park for a picnic, for a walk in woodland or around a lake, museums, for ice cream. We do a lot of what we used to do, but with my little boy in tow!

Yes, shes amazing. Her dad was a solo parent (like me) so she really gets it and is such a brilliant friend.

I do realise how lucky I am and tell her so. I'm not explaining it very well, but it is very much a two way friendship, ie the other day after leaving my house she messaged to thank me for listening to her while she ranted. We both get things from the friendship. I probably do get more right now, but that will change in the future and has been more equal in the past, ie before my child i would regularly take her/pick her up from work before she got her own car, including at midnight up to like 30 minutes away. I didnt hold that against her then, and i know this isnt comparable as a child is a looooot more, but she doesnt hold it against me. We are truly lifelong friends.

I get what you mean but friendships are supposed to be fun - I don’t want someone to feel they are having to make an effort to maintain our friendship.

They key is other child free friends (maybe I'm lucky that a couple of my longstanding good friends also didn't have children) and friends with older children who are out of the all-consuming under-12 phase.

I understand how much it sucks when close friends have children and your friendship changes overnight, irrevocably. No one's to blame, but it's really hard, I've really struggled with it. A lot depends on their own attitude, priorities and setups, sometimes you just have to take 10 steps back for a few years. Try not to take it personally and remain open to properly reviving your friendship after the early years are over. But you do need other friends in the meantime. Clubs/activities popular with gay men might be a good call.

If that works for you, great. Personally I can’t be arsed to hang around waiting for someone to decide that they can now make time for me. Like a PP, I would feel used.

There's often threads about how hard it is to make friends on here and so many responses agreeing how nigh on impossible it is. Sometimes it's because an OP has got kids - this time it's because the OP hasn't got kids.

I have never had any trouble making friends and my life is very normal in a small town of 13,000 people.

I smile a lot, I'm empathetic, take an interest in others and make them laugh. I don't worry about whether they like me or not.

I have wonderful friends of all ages and I make sure they know how much I appreciate them. I'm actually oversubscribed and often have to turn invitations down.

Someone here will no doubt tell me I'm a heartless arsehole 😄

I was just thinking how hard it is to make friends as a parent of young kids who take up all your time. I am a solo parent with limited childcare who also works long hours, and my goodness, making plans to meet with anyone is actually surprisingly difficult. Maybe its just harder to meet people now then it was in the past.

Before I had kids though, I was always available to travel to meet friends. I often made the effort for friends with young kids (tolerating the playgrounds), and now I think I was a really kind friend!

I don't think you quite get it. When you've got little kids (especially more than one) it's about daily survival. It's honestly not about losing interest in people at all - it's just I've got small people who can literally do fuck all for themselves. Evenings are difficult because you've got the drag of dinner/bed/bath. By the time this is accomplished, you're pushing 8 pm at best. It could take at least 45 minutes to reach a friend, you're not really going to meet until 9. Sure, you might have an hour together, get home at 11. Does that seem worth it when you're exhausted? Especially if you've still got wake ups and early starts. Weekends you might be a bit better off, but stealing time just isn't easy.

You've also got the element that parenthood is completely overstimulating. You're touched-out, people have been laughing/screaming/crying every second, you've been managing insane demands and preventing severe head trauma all day. It's beautiful but Jesus Christ you get to the end of the day and just want a good stare into the middle distance.

We're in the position that very few of our friends have kids. It's tough feeling out of the loop, and we keep up where we can in group chat banter and such. We love eachother enough that our child free friends know this is just a season for us - in a few short years we'll be able to do more.

To be told we just need to try harder, on top of everything else, is a bit of a kick in the teeth.

This is me. I’m in my 40s and I used to have a good group of friends. Everyone has had children and moved away and I now have one child free friend who actually still meets up but she lives far away. It’s really lonely. I’ve also tried clubs. I recently got a new job and have enjoyed being in the office more and seem to be making some friends there but it’s hard to take friendships outside of work.

Fwiw some of my child free/childless friends are also disappearing mid/late 30s once they'd moved in with partners. It seems they're nesting (with and without eggs) and they only want to hang out with fellow couples 🙄 they also want to be in bed by 9pm...

So I joined a sports club with around 50% childfree gay men and it's really fun. We have days out unrelated to the sport, picnics, a bake off, and a few times a year we go out until the early hours.

P.s. give it 5-10 years and those old friends will come back, divorced and with disinterested teens.

Actually we do get it. And that’s fine. It’s a ‘season’ for you. Some of your friends will hang round for when you come out of it and many won’t.

Yet so many parents are so patronising to their childfree friends. And most of us wouldn’t dare suggest you try harder because we get our heads bitten off.

Child free friends OP are the way to go. Keep up loose links with your old parent friends but stop making an effort if they are making zero back. You don’t have to hang around soft play, focus talk around the kids, buy the kids presents and receive precisely nothing back in terms of effort or interest in you. I’m in my 50s now and went through the same thing.

Work, hobbies. Meet-up didn’t work for me. Surprisingly the bumble friend app worked well but I think it depends on the area.

I think it's pretty common for friendships to shift as you get older and priorities change. Your friends lives have changed, either your friendship will shift to accommodate or it won't.

I think most people in their 30s have fewer friends than they did when younger. I imagine child free people have more capacity to make and maintain friendships. Does it matter if you make friends with people of a different age? Or try a different club I guess.

I don't think it's parents being patronising on this thread 😂

I can only tell you my thoughts as someone with children.

I’ve been a mum for my whole adult life. So I spent my 20s and 30s with majority childfree friends. But a decade later when I look back, the childfree friends that have stuck around and that I treasure are the ones that don’t mind my child.

And the ones I’ve drifted from are the ones that don’t really want to hang out with me and my child - because sometimes I try to find childcare but the only way to chat is a walk with my child.

But the thing is - I personally don’t mind. I often feel guilty for bringing a child along to what one thought was an adult day out. And when I chat to my mum friends we often have to agree whether it’s a childfree or child friendly meet up. We definitely have more meet ups with the kids because they are always there!!!

One of my childfree friends told me off for thinking that I can only hang out with her if I don’t have the kids. I told her I’ll let her know when I’m childfree and she said “don’t be silly - let me know either way and we will adjust the activity to match”

Although she has a dog - and I must say if you don’t mind pets, dog walkers tend to have a great social life meeting other dog walkers.

But I must add - in my 30s more of my friends are having children and they ask me “How do mums do it” - the all consuming nature of parenting is hard to understand. But I think people are within their rights to choose friends that do adult stuff vs friends that are always with their kids. I socialise differently when my children are around, and sometimes we genuinely socialise with eachother to get the kids to use up their energy.

But - I also have started investing more in my friendship. And one way I do this is letting my friends into my world a little bit more. Both childfree and those with children.

I get where you're coming from, OP. YANBU.

I'm a bit older than you, in my 40s, no kids. Most of my friends have kids, and pretty much all had them in their 30s. As the childfree friend, I always tried to give my friends with kids a lot of grace, as they had far less time and energy than me. That meant me fitting into their schedules when the kids were small, and doing activities like going for walks in the park, playgrounds, cafes with kid-friendly menus.

(Often what worked really well for everyone was me going around my friends' houses for a cup of tea. Their children would be there, I'd interact with them for a bit, but then they'd drift off and play, and my friend and I could catch up.)

But there comes to a point where there needs to be some reciprocity for the friendship to survive. Once the children are past the baby/breastfeeding/toddler stage (and assuming no other factors like special needs, or being a single parent), there's no reason why your friends can't accommodate you once in a blue moon, and pop out for say, a coffee or glass of wine, while their husband / mum / MIL, etc, watches the kids.

I've been lucky with my friends, as nearly all of them are wonderful people who choose to make time for me (and their other childfree friends) when the opportunity arises. OP, you might just be unlucky that your friends have evidently decided not to make that choice (because I do believe that at some point, "being too busy with the kids" to see your friends becomes a choice, rather than a necessity).

If you spoke to your old friends well in advance of your next visit and said: "Hey, it's literally been years since we had a proper adult catch-up. Can we lock in xx date, when I'm next in town?" would they be receptive?

I hear you. My friends had kids before I did and all I seemed to do was go to them or places for their kids. Actually I enjoyed going to the places as they were fun, just I felt the conversations were always about children stuff all the time and I just sat there, no one asked me about anything and I felt invisable, if I tried to start a conversation it was like I had spoken in a foreign language. They came to my house once after a bereavement on my side and they excitedly sat together and talked about babies. I had cooked them a meal and I don’t think anyone spoke to me except hello in the doorway.

However I would say now that I have made lots of new friends from having children, none compare to my longer standing friends, just maybe the first group I have mentioned I have distanced myself from a little. This I have remembered so when I had my children I clearly remembered what not to do.

It seems like you are doing all the right things, have you considered walking dogs (I hear you make more friends having a dog than kids)? Going to exercise classes, “meet up” walking groups have worked well for me before, volunteer ant Sunday Parkrun (I know it’s kids again, but volunteers will be anyone), anyone at work? all I can say are the good friendships can take a little longer to achieve which can be frustrating at times. Good luck.

I am in my 30s with kids and i’ve actually found it’s the same with my friends with kids even those of a similar age. Assumed we’d always meet but actually not really. A few times a year as everyone seems busy and goes for convenience ie prioritising friends they see eg at kids sports clubs, schools, life nearest to. So what I’m saying is it’s not always about child free versus with children. Although I appreciate it is in your case and it’s tough!!

I'm in my early 40s and have found that I prefer the company of other child free people. I've made a lot of friends in the last 5 years through sport activities and friendships have grown organically.
Some are older and their children are grown up and others are child free.

I lost some close friends to motherhood- it's natural as their priorities change, they need the support network of other mums. And truthfully, I'm not that interested in children. I'd rather meet friends doing fun activities than siting drinking coffee in a soft play.

Friendship doesn't need to be for life. I've found old childhood friendships stop feeling stimulating and I prefer the company of people who interested in the same lifestyle as me.

I think you'll probably start to find your tribe again. It does take a bit of work though. Meeting friends through hobbies does require you to take a active role in taking the casual acquaintance to friend status.

I don’t recognise this absolute focus on daily survival at all. Now admittedly I don’t have children. But I have friends who do. In fact pretty much all my friends do. I never hear this absolute martyrdom from most of them about their daily lives. Except one. And I don’t really see her anymore.

One of my friends has 3 children under 6. I only see her every 4-6 months in person as she’s obviously very busy but we text every week or two. Quick catch up. She was telling me about the book she’s writing and her job yesterday. Normally when we meet I pop round first and see the kids then we head out to dinner and her husband stays home with them. She only mentions them again if it’s relevant to something or it’s a funny story.

Another friend is a single parent with a son with autism. She struggled for childcare so I often see her with her son. I’ve helped her carry him home when he’s in a meltdown and being violent. But she still manages to talk about other things and doesn’t act like she’s the only person in the world to have a child. She texts me almost daily about general mundane things. Occasionally she’ll have a moan or a cry but she doesn’t go on and on about what a constant battle her life is (even though it is!).

Then I have more casual friends who are still just normal. One friend I’ll text every few months. “How’s the kids? Yeah all good. Have you seen that new film? Ooh not yet I’ll try next weekend! Are you coming to the meet up in October? No can’t make it my husband is away but I’ll be at the next one!” And so forth. No leaving messages unread for months. Or talking about survival.

The friend I no longer see really changed after her baby. Constant talk of “oh I never truly knew what tired was before I had a baby” etc. God forbid anyone said anything about something being hard or tiring and the response was always “well try doing it with a baby!!!” or “I can’t spend that much on myself I need to save everything for the baby.” and “Lucky you getting to go out. Some of us can’t anymore now we have babies who need us.” The best one was when another friend and I were visiting her and looking at dresses to wear to another friend’s upcoming birthday party. We found a nice dress and this friend responded with “oh I couldn’t wear something like that now I’m a MOTHER! It’s far too short. MOTHERS shouldn’t dress like that!” We were all around 30 at the time. The other friend who was there was a mother of 2. The dress was just above knee length. I think the final straw for me was when at a group lunch she asked specifically to sit somewhere else rather than next to me because I “didn’t understand how hard her life was now as I wasn’t a mother and she wanted to be near people who got it” This friend was so into motherhood that motherhood and HOW HARD IT WAS became her entire personality. So yeah I no longer see her.

At the end of the day women have been having babies since before we discovered fire. It’s no harder really for any woman now than it was 10,20,50,100 years ago. But yet some people are determined to make it so.

Totally agree with the above. Every word.