To think friendship is hard for childless/childfree women

Based on some of these replies, it makes you wonder why some people had children if they are so hard work they can't fit anything else into their lives.

At soft play - no.
I am a mum and I leave my child with my husband when I meet friends.
Unless all your mates are single mums with zero childcare options they should too.

Exactly - why on earth would anyone want to subject themselves to such stress and overwhelm that they can't maintain any of their friendships or do anything beyond (as PP said) "staring into the distance". Sounds horrific to me.

I get it. I'm childfree in part fot the reason that I couldn't face that little time to myself and levels of overstimulating.
That's why I've been more than happy to pick up with friends now tjat their kids are older again, unlike some previous posters I don't feel used, I fully see they've actually got time and headspace now.

I am pregnant now but I am the last of my friends to have a baby so I understand a little of where you are coming from. It’s all consuming and the focus is on them, their huge life transition and the new baby. I managed to actually strengthen my friendships but it did take a lot of effort on my part for not a lot of return in the immediacy. Some of which is fair enough - makes sense to travel to them when they have a baby, I paid for lunch as they were on Mat leave, I organised the group get togethers as I had more time.

I’m not sure how it would have played out if I hadn’t gotten pregnant - I’m definitely “one of them” now there is a baby on the way. It’s easier for them to see what the friendship will look like in the long term I guess.

I’m hoping I receive the love back that I gave when my baby is here but I have heard stories of this not happening when you are the last of your group because people just have less bandwidth.

I don’t know what to suggest - making friends as an adult is really hard.

I think finding the people who want to hang out with takes some persistence. People with young children are really busy so that can make it harder. I do have a child but older now and lots of my friends have young children. Trial & error wirh groups and I found a v good one.

But you don’t get it! They don’t even have time to breathe!

But they do have time to be on mumsnet all day.

Isn’t it?

My child free ( and partner free) friend basically did all the arranging - I hosted, we both bought wine and snacks every week.

She has more friends and makes new friends quicker than anyone I know. But she’s a people person. Knew all the neighbours, talk to people in bar, chat to anyone at events.

I just don't think having small children is a reason to suddenly not bother with your friends. Having less time or being less flexible, absolutely, but nobody is that busy that they can't make time for a half hour phone call once a week, or meet for a quick coffee once every other month.

I also think it's quite arrogant to expect to just be able to pick up where you left off when it comes to friendship - it's a two-way street. You can't just spend years focussing on your kids and then expect your friends to still be there when you come out the other side.

I think your late 20s/30s can be really hard with friendships for all women tbh, it depends on the situation.

The women I saw regularly in my 20s are all child free and I rarely see them these days. But it's as much a change in interests as anything else. I'm open to going for dinner, out for coffee, gigs, theatres, a local walk, craft markets or if be more than happy to do a few days away. But they tend to be in a unit with their partners, don't like kids and just want to go to the pub (which I will do sometimes, but I haven't got the time for the hangover). It's tricky because as much as I like their partners, mine will often be at home. And sometimes it would be nice to see them alone. Now my kids are older it is much easier to do child free stuff but i end up doing it with friends who happen to be mothers.

I do think a lot of people lose their identity and their ability to have a conversation about anything else when they have a baby. I've tended to find that it returns gradually (for those that don't make motherhood a whole identity) but it is a period where it definitely can feel like you are on different pages.

From observation, gyms that do group sessions, WI or hobby based activities are likely to have people who are open for friendship to grow organically. Or as someone said, a dog. I think for a lot of people things do get lonlier with age.

Also, asking for a coffee outside a group activity isn't a request to become best mates, but it's a start. I'm sure lots of people would like to be asked.

Yes - I have three kids and fully agree. I don't engage with the description of all consuming, not even a moment to breathe 24/7 miserable martyrdom of motherhood on this thread at all. I think there's a degree of helping yourself that needs to be done - I had patches of feeling sorry for myself and lonely when my kids were younger but again - friendship is about reciprocity, not about one person running around after another.

Gosh you sound like hard work i want friends but dont ask anything of me, i want friends but they dont come see me, i want friends but they expect me to pay to do things, i joined meetup but all the men came onto me, it doesnt actually sound like you do want friends at all

People are not there to get something from them, do you offer to babysit do you get involved with the kids,

If someone doesn't want children, why on earth would they want to get involved with them, let alone offer to become a babysitter for them?

I've heard all of that before so I do get it.

My point was that when I'm told that parenthood is such a 24/7 miserable existence that parents can't possibly be expected to think about their friends, I just think... you willingly chose it over the perfectly decent friendship we had, then. You'd rather have that 24/7 miserable experience than hang out with me.

So you think the friends who are not parents are unreasonable for wanting their parent friends to contribute towards the friendship, yet also the non parent friends should be offering babysitting services? (I’m assuming so the parents can then go out with other friends and not them? 🤣)

I don’t know how to say this without gloating but I’m childfree and have loads of friends and a very active social life.
I have different groups of friends from childhood, the city I moved to, and old job 15yrs ago, current work, and gym. A lot of them have kids but because those most of these friendship groups didn’t grow up together and have babies at a similar time they’re not ‘mum friends’ as such, and the socialising we do doesn’t revolve around or include their kids.
So basically I don’t find it hard at all but maybe I form relationships/ friendships easier than others.
I do think it’s easier to make friends with people once they’re out of the toddler years of parenting.

Yet there are plenty of people on here who do have kids who also don’t understand the “daily life is survival only and all parents can do for years is stare into space” mentality. The majority of my friends with multiple children are just like they were before kids - just busier. They still text. They still go out. They still have careers. They still have hobbies.

Also when individual friends have had babies I’ve enjoyed being part of their babies / kids lives and tried to make life easier for them such as visiting them, meeting up where is convenient for them and sending useful gifts.
Being a parent is fucking brutal and you’re in survival mode in the early days (hence me deciding not to do it) and you have to understand that.

It's not spot on though, is it? Because lots of parents have written on here that they still manage to go out with friends and that they don't just spend their free time staring into space just because they have kids.

It's not something I see in real life either - I don't know anyone who is so all-consumed with parenting that they don't maintain their friendships.

It comes down to dramatically different lifestyles. It sounds like you take an interest in their kid and are happy to do child friendly meet ups, it can usually work if the child free person is prepared to make all the effort in those early years.

I agree. Not every friend has children at the same time. And some of my friends are child free.

I think that's why my relationship with my best friend survived week been I had Sheridan and she didn't. My children meant that I had virtually no time off-duty, that other parts of my life had to fit into the gaps around their needs, I was usually exhausted when we managed to meet up and my kids were the main thing in my life to talk about. But raising them, although it was very hard work, felt like a vocation and brought me a joy that was proportionate to the time and effort I put in. She, has a job that means that every moment of free time has to be carefully planned, that leaves her exhausted, that takes up enough time to be a huge part of her life, and that is a vocation and a key part of her identity. I supported her with her job before I had kids and when my kids were old enough to leave behind for time with her. She supported me when my children were little. We both give what we can, when we can, and recognise that sometimes the other person has nothing to give, but that in a long-lasting friendship, that will change. We're heading into middle age now and caring for children is only an issue now for a few of us in our friendship group. But as we age, and our parents age, there's a whole new set of caring responsibilities starting to affect us, and the child free people are just as much as affected as the ones with children.

So my advice would be to consider whether you see your friendships as having long- term potential, in which case it's worth putting in a bit of legwork but also making new friends who are right for this season of your life.

Of course friendship is about ‘getting something’ from each other, whether it’s company, support, fun etc. What exactly is the parent offering in your scenario? But you are expecting the childfree person to make even more effort, by babysitting? Why would you do that for someone who has no interest or time for you?