Dependent sibling and elderly parents. What what happens when parents are gone?

My dh’s dsis was a bit chaotic, her inheritance went into a trust to provide an income to top up benefits or income, but she wasn’t living with parents at least. Definitely need to ensure any will is written in the correct way and consider the best way to deal with inheritance and leaving the house to sell. Moving into independent housing sooner would be better

You said they want to buy her a house. Can they buy it and rent it out so she has somewhere to go after they are gone.

Don't take this responsibility on OP. Leave it to professionals and let support fall into place. If you get involved, you will spend the rest of your life being her advocate, sorting everything out, shelving your own needs and relationships, and can literally reduce your own lifespan due to the stress. I'm not exaggerating.
The irony is, she won't thank you for it, your life will be full of guilt trips, poor me whining and drama.
Parents need to sort out a sensible and well thought out will, and have difficult convos with her sooner than later, to avoid your life being marred by indecision. Sounds harsh, but unfortunately they have fostered a codependency and they need to help create a plan for the future. It will be a lot kinder to get a plan straightened out now, with her in the loop, than allowing a 'what now' situation to happen once they're gone.
I know, because my grandparent left the family with implied responsibility for an extremely chaotic member of extended family whom I have now cut off due to their absolutely horrific behaviour over inheritance and refusal to accept any reasonable help. I have often thought that my grandparent checked out with only thought for them and not for the harm they caused to the wider family, distracting from our grief.
There's professional support out there and honestly it will be more effective and boundaried. The local authority and relevant charities will have support options, don't be a rescuer, just let them do their jobs, it will be better all round. I wish we'd done that instead of dealing with the chaos and horrid behaviour.

Slightly different situation. Sil is lazy just not bothered working, her late husband was a drunken bum ... Both waiting for his parents to die. They did any they got nothing!!

Now when mil goes, who basically supports sils life, it's going to be fucking 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂

She's going to get very little as mil mainly has a good pension, which will go and there are 3 kids...so she's stuffed

And if anyone says anything sil got a brand new car 15 years ago "to drive us about" when fil was still with us....she has taken mil to the supermarket, where mil pays for her shopping. She's never taken mil to the nearest town in 15 years. She refused last summer to drive mil to see her sister who was visiting for from abroad..she made her aunt walk 2 miles...she's 90 years old...

Unreal behaviour to let her walk, god these ppl!

Once she hits 55 she will be eligible for local authority older persons housing, which means she would get housing benefit to cover the rent and would have no maintenance responsibilities.

I have been in a similar situation where a sibling was still dependent on parent when they passed away. I live several hours away so they were thrown in at deep end learning how to run a house (home was rented). They have coped but needed lots of support initially and their health means they receive disability benefits which help with practical things like cleaning etc. Sadly there is very little support from other agencies if you are seen as functioning even at a basic level

Mate that's not the least of it. Mil is 97 until recently she had her walking a mile to pay for meat at the local butchers...
Surprisingly, sil has fallen out with that butchers

Whaaaat! Just wild behaviour

My Dad has had this problem with his (much younger) half brother. There's a 25 year age gap and he's only a couple of years older than me.

His brother is almost certainly autistic and when his mother died he was left living in the house which he can't afford. His mum left him £8000 which he thought was an enormous amount and he'd be able to survive for years off it (which gives you an idea of how dependent he was on his mother).

He struggles to live independently. He's in his early 50s. The trouble is without a diagnosis he's rather screwed.

My parents eventually persuaded him to put the house on the market but he's now been on for twelve months because he won't drop the price because the reality is he doesn't want to move. He will eventually lose the house if he carries on. It's in a state though because he can't look after himself.

He lives more than 200miles from my parents who are in their 70s so not in a position to really help. They are supporting at arms length because they realise that a) the age difference means he may become my problem if they help more b) he almost has to fail before social services can step in and help him with supported living because he will end up with an assessment.

The whole thing is ridiculous in a way but they are powerless to do much more.

My dad no longer is taking his calls for everything under the sun (including how to deal with the smoke alarm when the battery is flat and changing a lightbulb). My mum is much more patient so she mostly deals with him.

My Dad had conversations with his Dad and Step Mother for years before they died. They were largely in denial and didn't do anything. He has found it enormously frustrating.

I do think you have to make a conscious decision about what's in the best interests of everyone here - including yourself.

The reality is you have a husband and kids and this means there's limits to how much you can take your sister on and given she has a history of drug abuse you have little choice but to keep her at arms length.

Even if she stays in the house, if she has no income she will not be able to stay in it because she won't be able to afford to maintain it, run it and pay council tax with no job. This is your conversation starter with your parents about what provision she might need. The reality is she will be better off if the house is left to you both precisely because you can force a sale and this will force her to down size to something she can maintain and afford long term.

You can not get involved too much because of the implications to your children. You will need to be prepared to go legal if she harasses you for this reason too.

In terms of what support she might get, if she has assets, she will get little support before she's lost it all. That's one of the frustrations my Dad has that he has limited options available to his brother until that point because he is refusing a diagnosis pathway. My Dad has put a few things in place but it's not really enough. So again, leaving the whole house to her probably really isn't in her best interests because that just delays access to support she may need as there will be no identified problem if she's off the drugs.

So even though you might feel obliged to try and help your sister because really careful here about how it will impact your family and whether that ultimately will help your sister. You have this situation where letting her fail without your support may be in her best interests long term because you don't know how long either of you will be around for. The last thing you want is for her to become a burden to your survivors if you go first.

I wish I had some solutions. My parents really don't have any apart from waiting for the inevitable crash before they can help his action / access anything else. They understand this and find it hard but don't know of an alternative that will work for the rest of his life. Their age makes this particularly concerning though my uncles lifestyle is so poor and his health not great my Dad may yet outlive him (my grandfather lived to 95).

I don't have any contact with him - my parents have made a point of telling me not to now with all of the above in mind.

It is a good suggestion for your parents to buy two units close to each other in a supported over 50's lifestyle set up, close to networks and medical care that they know.
They can ease DS into living there.

Does she not claim any benefits at all? I’m sure she could, were a small place made available to her, and it'd pay her rent too.

I wanted to ask if you reckon she is prepared for the sad but inevitable event of Mum or Dad passing away, and then the remaining spouse becoming sick from the loss, and in effect very much older suddenly, and in need of 24/7 care.
How on Earth would that scenario play out? Or if, God forbid, residential care is required and the house must be sold to pay for that?.
In short, is she aware of the troubles that may be in store while she lives rent free and idle in the house of ageing parents : that could all change very dramatically due to the care needs of said elders.
She really ought to be trying a bit of self sufficiency asap, for her own sake.

(All of which supports the suggestion of their buying two small adjacent units somewhere, if funds permit it.)

[I know in my own family, my maternal grandparents went almost overnight from hale and hearty 90-year olds to one bewildered old gent in a nearby care home suffering from dementia, and his adoring, jolly wife of 70+ years turning her face to the wall and willing herself to catch pneumonia (which she did, with the swift, predictable result)
A close family member of about 70 had been living with them as their housekeeper-cum-nurse, and she was pretty much turfed out into the night so that an actual nurse might move in to care for grandma.
By order of my uncle, who turned out to have their POA. The son, therefore the beloved child.
He came out of the shadows like a giant bat, and turned all the angles in this sad mess to his own advantage, though he'd not lifted a finger to help his parents, ever.
It was all a horror show, and it’s at such times that depths of heartlessness are plumbed in families, once any whiff of sharing a care burden clashes with the eager wait for a will to be read.

If you can exert any soft influence on the QT now, you might be sparing everyone involved many arguments, harsh words, and above all, spare an anxious and even bereaved parent a goodi deal of anguish and confusion.

Depending on how much the estate is likely to be worth is it possible to approach it from an inheritance tax standpoint? Frame it as not wanting DSIS to end up
with a huge tax bill?
I would encourage them to be looking at downsizing and buying two smaller properties close by so DSIS can transition into living independently.

There may be different types but I’d be cautious of having all the money in retirement properties that are hard to sell. The amount of stories I’ve seen on families struggling to sell them and accruing charges.

Maybe if it’s just for the sister but a degree of separation from the parents seems like a good idea.

I think her history of addiction could provide a way into this discussion. Your sister has already said that she doesn’t want to move out because she feels vulnerable to old patterns of behaviour. Your parents need a will, or a new arrangement that can help protect your sister from herself in the future.
My DSis is in her 50s and two years younger than me. She has autism, epilepsy and one or two other health conditions. She managed a retail job for a few years in her 40s but lost it due to Covid and it feels unrealistic to suppose that her limited experience could get her rehired in this job market. She has stopped applying. The whole situation is held together by the fact that my parents have been able to provide for her financially and it sounds as though your parents also have the ability to support your sister. Mine bought her a small terraced house which is 5 minutes walk from them about 20 years ago. This was placed into a trust so that she cannot sell it or move someone in because her autism means that she could be manipulated by someone who was determined to take advantage of her very trusting nature.
Your sister could be preyed upon by drug dealers, other addicts and debt collectors. It doesn’t seem sensible for her to be handed a house which she could be threatened or manipulated into sharing or selling. If your parents buy somewhere for her, she needs to be protected from herself and you could offer to help with this. Could they perhaps buy something small now and rent it out and she could move into it when the family home needs to be sold? She might change her mind and decide to live in it once it actually exists?
My DSis is only semi independent. She lives alone day-to-day but she needs support if anything goes wrong in the house and, if we do not go and help her with the house every few months, it does end up looking like one of those houses from the “Extreme Cleaners” type of tv shows. My mum is still alive but I have accepted that when she dies, my sister will probably need to move close to me (she’s about 200 miles away now) but, because of the slow introduction of independence, she probably won’t need to live with me.

You are entitled to feel that way. Expressing concern is being compassionate. You are worried about what will happen once she’s alone.
I’d want to speak to your mum without sister present.
If she won’t listen I do think a letter may be for best saying you are concerned about sister and how she will manage on her own in future. Be clear you aren’t going to step into a parental role. She is very vulnerable to being preyed upon.

I’m sorry that you are in this position OP. I think it’s clear that your parents expect/ assume that you will care for your sister when they die. They’ll either leave your sister the house, saying she needs somewhere to live and you have a home, or split it between you, leaving you with all the admin/ dealing with her. All you can do is get really sure of your boundaries so that you can ensure that you stay within them. Your parents won’t change now. I’m sorry.

Gosh it’s so difficult, isn’t it? As I said yesterday, we are in a similar situation with my brother. My parents are trying to purchase him a small property near to them, in the hope that they will be able to ease him in gently. Initially brother was defiant and against the suggestion. Hopefully they will turn a corner soon!

I’m miles away and our other sibling doesn’t want anything to do with the situation. Neither of us want messy legal fees, in an attempt to get our brother out of the family home when the time comes.

It’s a shame your parents aren’t more compassionate about you and what lies ahead.
I would now withdraw all contact from them all. Until your parents act and concrete plans are made I would hold onto that upset and anger, stay away completely and leave them to it. They have shot themselves in the foot.

OP, can I just ask, has anyone asked your sister directly how she plans to look after herself when your parents die, if she can't manage to do so now, and if so, what was her answer?

How about opening a conversation with your parents and your sister now, asking them how they expect her to survive when anything happens to them? This needs to be discussed in front of, and with your sister in my opinion, unless of course she actually has severe mental health problems, as she needs to be made aware that your parents won't live for ever, and that if they leave their assets to you jointly, she will NEED to move out. As you say, your parents have obviously been allowing your sister to brush this under the carpet for years, rather than forcing her to face it, but unless you want to end up in the mess that is likely to occur if this isn't dealt with now, then I think that you need to either force the issue, or be prepared to walk away from your sister and any inheritance that you might be expecting. Also, if you were to do this, how do you think your parents would react, ie, would they change the subject because they don't want to deal with it, or don't want to discuss it in front of her?

Strongly agree; the sister needs to speak up.

If your parents aren't willing to have a sensible discussion about what happens to your sibling after they die, all you can do is make your position very clear to them.

They will probably leave the house to her and she won't be able to cope at all. Do you know what's in their will? Who are the executors? I very much doubt that your sister would be able to cope with organising the funeral and applying for probate.

Your parents need to know that you can't and won't be stepping up to support your sister to the extent that they have done. Could they afford to buy her a small supported living property now so that they can help her with the transition from living with them to living semi-independently?

Your parents have got their heads in the sand and I'm sure that they just expect you to step up and support her like they have done once they are no longer around. You need to disabuse them of that notion so that they can make sensible and realistic plans for your sister once they have gone.

I’m sorry your conversation with your mum didn’t go well. It might have been something better suited to face to face rather than phone?

Do you know why your sister is as she is? Does she have any ND or mental / physical health issues that have been diagnosed? What was she like at school? Have you ever been able to talk to your parents about her without getting tangled up in all the emotion? Have they ever stood up to her or set boundaries of their own? It must be very disruptive to their own life to have her living there with all the drama she brings.

the bottom line though is that you can only set your own boundaries. You always have a choice, even if it’s a very hard one and there might not be any good options. There is nothing inevitable about you having to take your sister on.

why is it obvious that your sister always comes to your house with them? Don’t they ever come without her? Can you arrange to meet your mum or dad one-to-one?

My heart goes out to you.

I have a similar situation in my family but with my disabled, vulnerable, darling sibling who is the kindest, gentlest soul. I can't imagine how much harder the situation must be when there is no obvious underlying disability and the person has capacity.

I have a few thoughts:

• There is a UK charity called Sibs that has a closed Facebook forum for siblings of people with disabilities and I think they may also include addiction within that (possibly). It's full of people trading stories like these, sometimes they're met with with practical suggestions and advice, and at the very least they're met with kindness and understanding.
• If I'm wrong and they don't include siblings of addicts, might you consider contacting https://addictionfamilysupport.org.uk/ ? I think we imagine these type of organisations as being there for people whose family member is in crisis or active addiction, but my understanding is that they're there for you any time, no matter what. Even in the grinding mundane in-between bits that can last years. You don't have to wait for a crisis before reaching out.
• My other thought is that part of your parents evasiveness may be because they're planning to leave the house to your sister and haven't got the balls to tell you. I would do all you can to prepare yourself for this financially and emotionally, just in case.

It's great to hear you've got a loving husband and children, it sounds like you're going to need them.