What happens with "trans" people at airports?

Officers are trained to search both sexes and it’s just part of the job. They accept it when they train for and accept the job. The reason female officers search women and male officers search men is largely about the comfort of the person being searched rather than the person doing the searching. It’s no different to any other role which involves physical contact with the public: doctors and nurses are trained to provide physical care for both sexes and can’t blanketly refuse to provide care to the opposite sex because it makes them uncomfortable or they think it’s against their religion; if they don’t want to touch the opposite sex, they aren’t suited to the job.

Is that going to apply world wide - with differnt law and customs - I wouldn't have thought so.

I think anyone traveling should do some research and not assume cultrual behaviors and laws are universal - god know the internet is full of clips of amercian travelers who seem to make this mistake.

By same basis I assume anyone applying for airport security job in UK that may involve searches would also be aware of this - and if there was some religious or other reason this wasn't possible would be raising this with employers and looking at what UK law says on the issue or avoiding the job entirely.

Sorry! I somehow missed your post.

From what I understand, I don't think UAE is exactly a welcoming country for gender non-conforming or trans identified males. So I would assume not in UAE.

Dalaman is in Turkey, and after a quick google of their laws I'd guess yes? I don't know for sure.

Google says 'In Turkey, homosexuality has been decriminalized, and transgender people have been able to legally change their gender since 1988. However, there are still legal challenges, and discrimination protections have not yet been legislated fully for sexual orientation and gender identity.'

I'm surprised most posters don't realise this. Both sexes have to be trained to search anyone.

Wait... birth "gender"? Not sex?

No people are born either one sex or the other. Gender identity is a whole other ball game.

In the UK, sure. What about the UAE, for example?

As for consideration.

Again where is the consideration for women? Using the terms "transwoman" has lead to some real life harms for women in terms of at least one court case that I know of where a female victim was forced by the court to use female pronouns for her rapist. So she was retraumatised by having to use the words "she raped me with her penis".

A lot of people with Autism, like me really struggle with what is essentially an outright lie. Men are not women, referring to them as a type of women is not true. Where is the consideration there?

It's "be kind", but only ever for the men who will benefit, and not towards the women who will be harmed. I find that incredibly sexist.

You've ignored everything I wrote and the link to the article pronouns are Rohypnol, which explain my thoughts on how the language gender ideology uses leads to the encroachment on women's rights, spaces, and lesbian same sex attraction.

Like I asked, do you not remember the "trans women are women" and "no debate" era?

The use of female pronouns was all part of that, and we have seen the harms done to women from what a lot of women, including me, at first thought was just a social nicety. We soon found out that using preferred pronouns and terms such as "transwoman" was being used as the wedge in the door to women's spaces and rights.

What is a "transwoman" if not a person of the male sex, exactly?

It's not good manners to repeatedly attempt to coerce my language. Emotionally manipulative appeals to what you consider "manners" and in order to "dignify" another person's feeling that they have inside their head over their sexed body, material reality, and my rights to free speech on top of my rights as a woman is... unpleasant and wrongheaded.

Apart from the manipulation and coercion, why am I responsible for another persons dignity?

For that matter, why is it undignified to acknowledge the reality that a trans identified man is male? What is undignified about being a man? Why are male pronouns considered a pejorative, but only in this specific circumstances for such a small number of males?

Why can't Frank decide to be Francesca, wear whatever he likes, and act in whatever way feels most comfortable for him while doing the healthy thing in acknowledging the sex of his body? Why is it somehow better for Frank to pretend that his male sex doesn't matter?

Why should a man's internal gender identity supersede biological sex, reality, and women's rights?

Why do trans identified men and their allies not put their considerable efforts into raising awareness, acceptance, and support for non-conforming men? Why are they not "expanding the bandwidth of what it means to be" male, which they are, instead of female which they can never be.

Why did trans identified men attack and bully women who offered to help them campaign for extra spaces, awareness, acceptance, and support? Why do they continue to do attack and bully women who refuse to capitulate?

Oh and, "transwoman" is a confusing term to a lot of people.

I know people IRL who get confused with gender terms and what sex you actually mean. I know what the terms mean and the cognitive dissonance even slows me down a bit while my brain translates and double checks I've got a grip on who people are referring to.

It was also found to be a confusing term during Census taking time one year, people for whom English was not the first language particularly had trouble with understanding the terms used. It rendered Census data that year pretty unusable AFAIR. I forget which year it was, 2021-2023 perhaps? It'll be searchable on here I'm sure. There was definitely a few threads discussing it on FWR at the time and it still gets brought up occasionally.

You write compellingly, but on the wrong subject.

We are talking about having the manners to dignify someone who is deeply uncomfortable with their birth gender with the addition of the word “trans” before their gender.

In what way would doing so encroach on women’s safe spaces?
I’m not aware of any natal women being described as “trans women” so I can’t even see how this could cause a bit of a muddle if you need to know someone’s birth gender for any reason.

I can’t see how we’re giving up a lot of ground with this. However, it would infinitely more considerate.

You don't know a lot about some transwomen then.

Remember the "No Debate", "Trans Women Are Women" era?

It didn't work out well for women did it?

"Language is fluid & ever changing, and I don’t think that showing someone some consideration will lead directly to being raped by a guy who has bought a dress for nefarious purposes."

This is a straw man argument. I have never said that. Women need single sex spaces not only for safety, but as shown on this thread because of past trauma too. We also need them for reasons of privacy, dignity and religious belief. Where is your kindness towards women?

As to the rest of your post you can say what you like. I think it is a coercion of language.

People can use what words they like. You can put trans in front of whatever you like.

I choose to use sex based language, not as you say to cause offense, but to reflect accurate reality. I have explained why in my posts.

I don't think it belittles the "actual issues" women face in the real world at all actually.

I think part of the struggle for women's rights has been made harder and is sharply illustrated by our need to go right back to basics and have to defend the very words words that are used to describe us as a sex class.

If the words "woman", "girl", "female" no longer are exclusive to the half of the population that are in fact biological females, how do we as society provide the rights and protections that that half of society needs?

How do we separate that half of the population from the trans identified males who now also use those words to describe themselves when we need to?

We have now seen the results of what happens in those circumstances. It has not been at all beneficial for the female half of the population. In fact it has been extremely detrimental to us. Women's groups, actual lesbian groups, girls groups, charities, rape crisis centres, prisons, funding, awards, prizes, records, sports, shortlists, and so on and so forth were no longer championing females. Instead the needs of a small minority of males have been prioritised over the needs of all women.

When women offered to help campaign for extra provision for trans identified people they were called bigoted transphobes and the abuse of anyone who didn't fall in line with handing over every provision previously set aside for women were either harassed, arrested, attacked, de-platformed, fired or suspended.

Where is the be kind for women in appropriating their words? Where is the actual benefit to women here?

Sex not only matters for women, but for trans identified people too. There's been a recent furore in TRA circles because the NHS is finally going to start recording patient sex again, instead of just their identified gender. Sex matters.

I'll repeat myself. Call yourself whatever name you like, wear what you feel most comfortable in. I don't hate anyone or wish anyone harm. Sex still matters though, and men can never be women.

Never have I heard such oxymoronic nonsense..

To make this much of a fuss about refusing to be “coerced” (seriously?) into putting the word trans in front of a pronoun really belittles the actual issues women face in the real world.

You say “Trans identified males can do those things without infringing on women's rights”. How on earth is suggesting that you use the term “trans woman” or “trans person” infringing on women’s rights? We are talking about a qualified pronoun here. What exactly am I losing by showing a bit of humanity?
This doesn’t come across as someone defending women’s rights - more as someone who is sanctimoniously using pedantry to cause offence.

Language is fluid & ever changing, and I don’t think that showing someone some consideration will lead directly to being raped by a guy who has bought a dress for nefarious purposes.

Wow.

my apologises I got it wrong. It seems the idea of even been search by a man triggered me so much I wasn’t able to fully take the information in.

Really? Surely that would exclude Muslim women (and probably Muslim men also) from applying for the job. That doesn’t sound very likely.

I think the security take people at face value. I can’t see the problem for a pat down; they don’t feel your chest or crotch or bum. I never presume to guess whether someone is trans. They are the gender they are presenting. However, you might meet someone that it’s not obvious, that could be potentially awkward. But speaking for myself I wouldn’t care what gender the person patting me down was.

I don't think trans is accurate at all in fact. You do. So we disagree. Oh well. The world keeps turning.

Free speech. So yes they are free to "correct" you, whether you agree with them or not.

Using accurate male pronouns is not a comment on your family or life, it's not "bloody cheeky". It is just accurate. Your adult child is male.

Ah so you know why, like me, so many women refuse to use compelled speech then!

What happens if the pattee is someone from one of the several countries that have no gender markers on their ID or a legally recognised third / NB gender?

I didn't tell them how to refer to my young person. Just told them they were not free to correct me. This is my family and my life. Bloody cheeky of it.

I am fully familiar with pronouns are rohypnol. I have been on FWR for almost 10 years, since Maria McLaughlan Vs Tara Wolf.

And yes, it us factual to say my adult child identifies as trans. They are a trans person.

It's not really factual though is it? He is male. People are either male or female and although you can wear what you like etc, no one can actually change sex.

It is an attempt at compelled speech when you say to someone they're rude for using a non-pejorative, accurate term and then to say use these words in future instead of the ones you chose.

Yes you can use whichever words you'd like, I'm not trying to compel your speech.

https://fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/

To add, someone else using correct sex pronouns isn't compelling your speech, it's just them being factual.

How is acknowledging that this is a trans person we are talking about compelled speech? It's factual.

On other threads I have been told I am rude when I called out a poster who saw fit to correct my use of the female pronoun for my trans daughter. As I said to them: You can use he if you must; but you can't compel me to. That goes both ways.

Which was my point at the start. The world is open for everyone to visit. If you have a particular issue, you research. At one time you couldn't get antiretrovirals in every country, so you wouldn't risk going. If you are likely to be discriminated against, put in prison and open to abuse etc, you wouldn't go. There is enough places that are accepting. That was the issue with Quatar and Saudi taking over sporting events, it blocks a lot of people from spectating.

So if you know you’re being arsey… why keep being it?

Came to say this

Trans-identifying men are at least as likely to commit sexual offences as other men. And many of them identify as lesbians. I wouldn't want to have one searching me.