AIBU to ask what views of TR people object to?

The truth is because Im genuinely fascinated and want to learn more about it. Im a critical thinker, and no one is giving me actual facts. Its lots of unsubstantiated claims that hes just a big meanie.

I just looked up about the homophobia. He has said none of those things the other poster stated. He said he didn't liek that Pride was all about TQ+ and not LGB. (I agree). He said he doesn't like Drag Queen Story Time because of child safeguarding (I agree) and he doesnt like that Pride now is not a place for kids due to how sexual it has become (I agree). If hes homophobic for that then so am I! (and im gay, lol).

So unless someone can show me evidence otherwise I think all of this is people just being trendy and jumping on the bandwagon. Its trendy not to like him basically, and no one wants to actually question what he really has said and done. If you like TR = bad person, If you don't = good person. Just like it was with JKR 5 years ago. I mean someone said he was a rapist ffs!

God people really need to have their own minds and look at evidence!!!

@Hoops123 - Im with you on this. You wont get any sense from folk on here.

The truth is because Im genuinely fascinated and want to learn more about it. Im a critical thinker, and no one is giving me actual facts. Its lots of unsubstantiated claims that hes just a big meanie.

I just looked up about the homophobia. He has said none of those things the other poster stated. He said he didn't liek that Pride was all about TQ+ and not LGB. (I agree). He said he doesn't like Drag Queen Story Time because of child safeguarding (I agree) and he doesnt like that Pride now is not a place for kids due to how sexual it has become (I agree). If hes homophobic for that then so am I! (and im gay, lol).

So unless someone can show me evidence otherwise I think all of this is people just being trendy and jumping on the bandwagon. Its trendy not to like him basically, and no one wants to actually question what he really has said and done. If you like TR = bad person, If you don't = good person. Just like it was with JKR 5 years ago. I mean someone said he was a rapist ffs!

God people really need to have their own minds and look at evidence!!!

@Hoops123 - Im with you on this. You wont get any sense from folk on here.

He said he doesn't like Drag Queen Story Time because of child safeguarding

Is this position not slightly hypocritical, given that there is evidence that a number of people who were associates, supporters, or prominent figures within the English Defence League (EDL), which Tommy Robinson founded and led, were later convicted of child sexual abuse or child sexual exploitation offences? Does he cast the same aspersions, apply the same scrutiny, make the same points, about people within his own ranks?

The truth is because Im genuinely fascinated and want to learn more about it. Im a critical thinker, and no one is giving me actual facts. Its lots of unsubstantiated claims that hes just a big meanie.

I just looked up about the homophobia. He has said none of those things the other poster stated. He said he didn't liek that Pride was all about TQ+ and not LGB. (I agree). He said he doesn't like Drag Queen Story Time because of child safeguarding (I agree) and he doesnt like that Pride now is not a place for kids due to how sexual it has become (I agree). If hes homophobic for that then so am I! (and im gay, lol).

So unless someone can show me evidence otherwise I think all of this is people just being trendy and jumping on the bandwagon. Its trendy not to like him basically, and no one wants to actually question what he really has said and done. If you like TR = bad person, If you don't = good person. Just like it was with JKR 5 years ago. I mean someone said he was a rapist ffs!

God people really need to have their own minds and look at evidence!!!

@Hoops123 - Im with you on this. You wont get any sense from folk on here.

Just like it was with JKR 5 years ago

I don't think JK Rowling would like you drawing parallels between her and Tommy Robinson. There is no comparison.

I mean someone said he was a rapist ffs!

No, that poster clarified she talking about Andrew Tate.

Its lots of unsubstantiated claims that hes just a big meanie

People have backed up their claims with evidence.

I suggest people stop engaging with you as IMO you may not be posting in good faith.

I mean someone said he was a rapist ffs!

I don’t believe he’s ever been accused of rape (although his ex wife stated this but retracted it or something and instead just said there was violence due to drug and alcohol abuse).

But he did target a rape charity and encouraged his followers to target them. Men went and abused staff and the women using the service, as well as over the phone etc.

He also has multiple associates who have been convicted of DV and rape etc and not once has he spoken up about this.
Yet apparently he cares so much about women.

By asking questions Im not posting in good faith?

JK Rowling has openly supported Kellie Jay Keen. KJK has expressed very similar view to Tommy Robinson. She has said things like how we must get Islam out of our classrooms etc. KJK and TR support each other.
There are parallels because she was demonised as was KJK. There were talks KJK was a nazi for a while and did a nazi salute with her team when on tour. All unsubstantiated. Much like this thread, there were lots of unsubstantiated claims about both.

You are just really annoyed because I have, politely, not accepted your 'evidence' and am questioning it rather than blindingly accepting it. As I should. As we all should.

This is a discussion forum, this is a discussion post. The OP asked for us to discuss this, which is what I am doing. You keep trying to shut me down and are now asking people not to talk to me and claim I am posting in bad faith.

Who exactly do you think you are? If you dont like it, get better arguments and evidence. Indisputable facts. Not my fault you cant

People on MN are sometimes/often blinded by their sanctimonious virtuosity to such a degree, that even if factual truths are said by him, they will still say 'we hate his views'.

It was way earlier on the thread and I think the poster was actually thinking of Andrew Tate rather than deliberately making a false accusation. I had thought she had confused him with Conor McGregor. Although I guess it could also be Erol Musk or even Donald Trump. I don't think hanging out with rapists makes someone a rapist or makes it OK to accuse them of rape. But it is an odd choice for someone who is so once censed at the abuse of women/girls. On the other hand I guess that makes SYL quite virtuous amongst his acquaintances given that he's one of the few high profile men in his crowd NOT to have been found guilty of rape.

There is a lot of hate towards TR on many of these threads. Im interested to know what of his opinions etc that people are so outraged by? And please no ‘he’s a bigot’ ‘he’s a facist’ just pure and simple he says x and I think he’s wrong for y reason

I object to his behaviour: criminal violence, undermining trials, and positioning his resulting contempt of court as a political persecution.

I disagree with mass remigration on racial grounds, which he seems to endorse (though he is slippery here). I dislike the nativist framing of this he sometimes uses.

I think his portrayal of Islam as a disease is divisive, though I agree with him on the threat that Islam at scale poses to many liberal values.

I think if liberals fail to engage seriously with threats to liberalism our punishment is to have illiberals like TR pick up the mantle.

Just the one: denying biological women their own spaces. Trans women are men. Thank goodness the Supreme Court has clarified that that is the case.

My word that is awful. Really awful. That poor man.

The truth is because Im genuinely fascinated and want to learn more about it. Im a critical thinker, and no one is giving me actual facts. Its lots of unsubstantiated claims that hes just a big meanie.

I just looked up about the homophobia. He has said none of those things the other poster stated. He said he didn't liek that Pride was all about TQ+ and not LGB. (I agree). He said he doesn't like Drag Queen Story Time because of child safeguarding (I agree) and he doesnt like that Pride now is not a place for kids due to how sexual it has become (I agree). If hes homophobic for that then so am I! (and im gay, lol).

So unless someone can show me evidence otherwise I think all of this is people just being trendy and jumping on the bandwagon. Its trendy not to like him basically, and no one wants to actually question what he really has said and done. If you like TR = bad person, If you don't = good person. Just like it was with JKR 5 years ago. I mean someone said he was a rapist ffs!

God people really need to have their own minds and look at evidence!!!

@Hoops123 - Im with you on this. You wont get any sense from folk on here.

See I dont think thats disgusting. I have worked in this field and we had a specialist worker dedicated for women from certain groups - but it needs to be made explicit about why that exists. That facebook post does look like white women don't matter. I think the post should have been clearer as to why a separate service was needed.

By asking questions Im not posting in good faith?

JK Rowling has openly supported Kellie Jay Keen. KJK has expressed very similar view to Tommy Robinson. She has said things like how we must get Islam out of our classrooms etc. KJK and TR support each other.
There are parallels because she was demonised as was KJK. There were talks KJK was a nazi for a while and did a nazi salute with her team when on tour. All unsubstantiated. Much like this thread, there were lots of unsubstantiated claims about both.

You are just really annoyed because I have, politely, not accepted your 'evidence' and am questioning it rather than blindingly accepting it. As I should. As we all should.

This is a discussion forum, this is a discussion post. The OP asked for us to discuss this, which is what I am doing. You keep trying to shut me down and are now asking people not to talk to me and claim I am posting in bad faith.

Who exactly do you think you are? If you dont like it, get better arguments and evidence. Indisputable facts. Not my fault you cant

I think it was very foolish. I dont think it was disgusting. He isn't responsible for what his fans do. Would I handle it like him? Absolutely not. BUT I can understand why certain people would be angry about this, because it can very much feel like white women and girls just don't matter at the moment - especially around the grooming gang issue - and that is one of the focuses of his work from what understand. It must have incensed him. Because I have worked in this field I understand the need for DV services to have separate services for certain women from different cultures and ethnic groups - some of what they suffer is unique to their groups (honour, forced marriage, FGM), but if not in that field and not given the information as to why, I can understand why it feels racist and exclusionary of white women and girls. I think the centre has the ultimate responsibility here. The advert should have been more explicit about why the service was servicing only certain minorities.

So I dont think anyone has been disgusting here. And I do wonder if the calls really were racist and just people saying 'why dont white women matter?'.

Do you have any more examples? As I say I really dont know much about him, apart from everything I hear in the press and tiktok etc, but I dont listen to that as you can equally find horrid stuff about JKR and to me she is an absolute queen! Id like to be educated more on him though. He could be a collossal shit of course.

The truth is because Im genuinely fascinated and want to learn more about it. Im a critical thinker, and no one is giving me actual facts. Its lots of unsubstantiated claims that hes just a big meanie.

I just looked up about the homophobia. He has said none of those things the other poster stated. He said he didn't liek that Pride was all about TQ+ and not LGB. (I agree). He said he doesn't like Drag Queen Story Time because of child safeguarding (I agree) and he doesnt like that Pride now is not a place for kids due to how sexual it has become (I agree). If hes homophobic for that then so am I! (and im gay, lol).

So unless someone can show me evidence otherwise I think all of this is people just being trendy and jumping on the bandwagon. Its trendy not to like him basically, and no one wants to actually question what he really has said and done. If you like TR = bad person, If you don't = good person. Just like it was with JKR 5 years ago. I mean someone said he was a rapist ffs!

God people really need to have their own minds and look at evidence!!!

@Hoops123 - Im with you on this. You wont get any sense from folk on here.

Having something targeted at a sub group that need it is not saying other people don’t matter. This is like men whining that a service set up to help traumatised women is saying male victims don’t matter.

But the TRAs do exactly that. And male groups do too. Womens DV shelters are constantly being accused of being non-inclusive.

Listen, as I said, I think having groups for specific vulnerable groups is very much necessary sometimes. Im saying that I can see how some might interpret it as other groups don't matter. Weve had this in the service I worked for - I am shocked that a service wouldnt know this though and release a FB post like that because we know the reaction it would cause. All it needed was a line on it explaining why. I know you may think its spectactularly stupid but a lot people, especially since GI kicked off, think literally any provider servicing a particular group is not inclusive. I find that quite depressing.

Having something targeted at a sub group that need it is not saying other people don’t matter. This is like men whining that a service set up to help traumatised women is saying male victims don’t matter.

But the TRAs do exactly that. And male groups do too. Womens DV shelters are constantly being accused of being non-inclusive.

Listen, as I said, I think having groups for specific vulnerable groups is very much necessary sometimes. Im saying that I can see how some might interpret it as other groups don't matter. Weve had this in the service I worked for - I am shocked that a service wouldnt know this though and release a FB post like that because we know the reaction it would cause. All it needed was a line on it explaining why. I know you may think its spectactularly stupid but a lot people, especially since GI kicked off, think literally any provider servicing a particular group is not inclusive. I find that quite depressing.

Tommy Robinson.

All of his views. They have no place in a modern society.

What are his views? I ask because what I have heard from him, he is just worried about the state of the country and safety of women and girls.

I was at his march in September (I think it was) last year. It was hilarious. There was singing, dancing and lots of fun. There were all ages, from babies in pushchairs to disabled adults in wheelchairs. There were all creed and colours of people there.

You obviously weren't there. Shame. It might have enlightened you.