To almost feel a shred of sympathy for Tommy Robinson

Really?

TR's basic argument was: "when you look at how Islam is practiced across the world today, at things like rates of child marriage, treatment of prisoners of war, punishments for adultery and homosexuality, it is not unreasonable to be "suspicious". He tied a lot of those things to actual Quranic quotes and examples or hadith.

What is your answer to this?

Because I, who think TR is a troublemaking thug and a racist, think that's a pretty reasonable point.

I'm suspicious of any religion that justifies stonings for adulterous women (or rape victims), death penalty for homosexuals, child marriage, and ethnic cleansing. I'm deeply suspicious of it when it's Christians in medieval Europe, in Uganda now, in Ireland in living memory, in the new world. I'm deeply suspicious of it when it's Hindu widow-burning. And I'm suspicious of it when it's Islam.

Aren't you?

It is all over X this morning. Both clips are.

He's a twat who has monetised and misled the frustrations of people who are struggling due to structural issues stemming from systematic underinvestment and economic mismanagement by successive governments, for his financial gain.

YAB so U

He has made the choice to be the vile thug that he is.

I agree. My personal view is that Islam needs a Reformation before the modern, secular West should be comfortable with it. (Ditto I think Christianity did, and thankfully got one, plus further softening later).

I think there are loads of really good and serious arguments both for and against that position.

I don't think pretending it's somehow a trivial issue or a racist thought helps anyone.

He’s a disgusting racist piece of work of very limited intellect. What on earth possessed him to expose the level of his stupidity in a debate against some of the best brains in the country? He richly deserved everything he got. Zero sympathy.

He's a grifter who makes a living stoking fear and hate.

I don't feel sorry for him, just disgust and revulsion. He is a grown man with autonomy. He chose to pursue this path in life.

OP says his entire argument was destroyed.

Perhaps you're right - I wasn't there and don't know - but being defeated 57-41 doesn't seem to reflect what you describe.

I was a member of a similar society. Such a result wouldn't have been a very close vote, of course, but it indicates a divided audience rather than one that mostly agrees that one side's argument has been destroyed.

And that's especially notable since Oxford, including the union, are now liberal and largely fairly left wing communities.

Not watched the video but bots/idiots on social media said he destroyed her and unfortunately that becomes the truth for some people.

But it won’t die soon and simply hoping it will, or dismissing his position out of hand is fuelling support for him.

I don’t mean you personally should do anything different from what you are doing. I don’t think it’s up to individual members of the public to engage.

Some of what he says reflects uncomfortable truths. He combines these with lots of misinformation and lies. He then uses failure to acknowledge the truths as evidence that he is speaking the whole truth.

Society has slept walked into polarised and binary position taking. People are good/bad, right/wrong, racist/inclusive, Islam is fine/a problem, transwomen are women/men. This is ridiculous and deeply harmful in relation to a workable, diverse society.

For some, the above paragraph is considered evidence of my bigotry/ ignorance/ privilege, and this positioning, in my view, that is a gift to the TRs of this world.

But if you haven't watched it, how did you form your opinion that he didn't destroy her? How do you know whether he destroyed her, she destroyed him, or it was somewhere in the middle?

When Robinson doesn’t denounce his supporters and rally attendees giving Nazi salutes he loses any credibility. You can debate Islam and the migrant crisis but you can never be seen as an ‘intelligent’ well intentioned man when you are funded by Musk and the US and these cretins are your fan base. The faux Christianity and baptisms that he encourages are also sickening.

Oh you can only view X if you have an account

I’m not sure what the connection is. I’m deeply suspicious of all religions for one reason or another- they are of course just a way to keep people compliant and controlled- but what does that have to do with me? I can’t stop people practising their fairy magic. Why is TR obsessed with islam and not Sikhism or Jainism or Judaism? Or indeed, Christianity which (along with colonialism) destroyed his so called ancestral land?

A Muslim state and sharia law 😂 as if. Why would they? They already have plenty of Muslim states. Why would “Muslims” want to take over the uk (of all places tbf- a national in likely terminal decline)

I think we are agreeing. You are saying that you are suspicious of TR's motivations. You are also saying that you are suspicious of Islam. I think it's perfectly possible (and indeed rational) to be both.

Unfortunately, as intolerable and disgusting as such behaviour, this sort of argument does come down to whataboutery. Refusing to engage in dialogue about the points he brings to the table is seen by many as an avoidance tactic - pointing out one set of wrong doing to avoid difficult questions.

It is definitely the case that elements of Islam are incompatible with liberal and progressive values. People can say ‘what about [insert her other problematic faiths, cultures, historical atrocities] but that doesn’t change the points about Islam being raised. These points tend to be raised by racists with racist agendas. They can also be raised by those with non-racist motivation.

Tommy Robinson has stated he believes in ‘feminine Christianity’ that’s an antiquated upholding of gender roles and an undoing of the progress of women in UK society. You can’t debate Islam in an intelligent way when you and your followers are calling for repressive and hateful oppression in the name of a Christian god. It’s all bs and he’s a stupid man who thinks he’s got something of worth to say when he really doesn’t. Just like Trump, Musk and Tate… as a woman I do not give him head space. So, in answer to the OP’s question about sympathy, there’s none from me.

He's not ignorant, he's a grifter. Anyone giving him money is an absolute mug.

I know you’ve posted to amplify the debate however of course he is decimated intellectually and made to look like a cunt because he is a cunt, utterly vile and racist. He is a violent grifter stirring up hatred and I know where my sympathies lie.

I think this is an interesting point.

I think it’s uncontested that people migrate to other countries for a better quality of life. When doing so, they don’t leave their values, beliefs and culture behind.

The liberal paradox was always going to kick in at some point. A system based on tolerance/inclusion eventually has to decide what to do with the intolerant.

Some will read the above and think that TR and his supporters are the intolerant, some will think it’s those who support Islamic beliefs, some wi think it’s those on the left refusing to platform those raising concerns and dismissing them as racist.

I think all of the above are intolerant!

So what should be done about oppressive belief and value systems within a country seeks to be liberal and progressive?

How many sharia courts currently exist in the UK and why is the answer not 'zero'?