AIBU to be deeply concerned about the recent influx of 30k+ undocumented arrivals in Spain?

But since Brexit you don't have to worry about our citizens freely moving to the UK so our nationality laws should not be a concern.

You posted the laws for consideration. Illustrating one reason not to rejoin the EU. Although, how many applicants are under age 30/35? The UK is negotiating a youth mobility deal with the EU.

Unfortunately a lot of posts get buried beneath the rather silly “you’re racist”, “Tommy and Nigel” and “well white people commit crimes, most of the crimes committed in the UK are by the British” or ridiculous posts about colonialism and climate change immigration theories which means we sometimes miss the more informative posts.

I don’t have time to look back through pages of who’s said what but I have just looked back and seen one of your more recent posts which I feel you have explained very well about the asylum/ immigration law and borders. It’s a very interesting point you have made about the immigration law and entering a country via the sea. It makes sense now why Spain have put the ‘floating border’ in place. Unfortunately it appears to be a “loophole” in the system that many have been taking advantage of for years.

Yes that's right. Citizens of former Spanish colonies have the right to request citizenship after 2 years of legal residency instead of 10. There are also provisions for Sephardic Jews with links to Spain to obtain Spanish nationality without any requirement for residency.

But since Brexit you don't have to worry about our citizens freely moving to the UK so out nationality laws should not be a concern.

And again - having a criminal record is a reason for denial of nationality.

@IcedCoffee26 ,

I very much doubt many (if any) have criminal intent. Ultimately the real criminals find far easier ways of entering the EU than a perilous swim.

They are mostly economic migrants. I mean, if you grow up in a country with an average income of, say $2,000 on a PPP basis (that would be Somalia), wouldn’t EU residency be the promised land?!

But that doesn’t mean we can just take them all.

I am curious as to your views on immigration? How many and where from? I think it is very easy to be sympathy, far harder to parameterise it into criteria.

Further, for those worried about the Regularización Extraordinaria that recently took place...

The majority of applicants were from Latin America

Your post goes on to say;

'Spanish nationality by residence is normally only available to those who have lived here legally for a minimum of 10 years, with the exception of certain groups - nationals of former Spanish colonies (2 years of legal residency)'

Didn't Spain have vast colonies in Latin America? So, the majority of applicants will only need a further 2 years of legal residency (after the first year) before gaining Spanish nationality and EU citizenship? That would explain why other EU countries are concerned.

Looking at some recent high-profile murders in the UK:

Killer 'extremist' Ahmed Alid (born in Morocco) first entered the EU via Spain;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4n1myeprveo
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3ex3x1kn33o

Hainault sword killer Marcus Monzo (born in Brazil, Spanish mother) was able to move to the UK via his dual Spanish citizenship;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68968817

Nottingham killer Valdo Calocane (born in Guinea-Bissau) came to the UK with his family via Portuguese citizenship;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-68080872

Excellent question.

It wasn't us though.

And the fact that so many voluntarily return so quickly and peacefully shows that the "they have criminal intent" rhetoric was a bit....hasty.

What on earth is wrong with you? You are showing humanity and kindness. I fear you are in the wrong place.

Said ironically.

No problem.

So claiming asylum in Spain is not at all straightforward.

So who tricked them into thinking it was straightforward and provided tens of thousands of identical rubber rings?

So claiming asylum in Spain is not at all straightforward.

It requires an appointment. These are difficult to obtain.

https://www.abogacia.es/actualidad/noticias/la-abogacia-denuncia-la-vulneracion-del-derecho-de-asilo-ante-la-imposibilidad-de-obtener-una-cita-por-internet/ see this information.

https://www.elsaltodiario.com/migracion/batalla-conseguir-citas-asilo

And this information.

If you don't request asilo within 30 days, your request can be refused entry into the system. There is some flexibility if you can prove genuine reason for the delay in requesting it, but again, not straightforward.

It requires that you acredit a genuine need for protection - again, difficult and has to meet certain requirements outlined in the law. Showing up and saying "I'm gay and it's dangerous for me" is not going to cut it.

You can be rejected if you have a criminal record. You can be rejected if it is considered that you pose a risk to Spanish public safety.

It takes a very very long time to be approved (think over a year). You can usually work in this time but you cannot leave Spain.

So again. It isn't just "come, pick up your asylum docs, laugh all the way around the EU"

https://www.boe.es/buscar/act.php?id=BOE-A-2009-17242

Here's the law.

@IcedCoffee26 ,

They can’t just go direct to Spain but they can claim asylum and then cross into Spain and beyond, assuming their claim is allowed.

There are reasons whereby Moroccans can claim asylum. More to the point, how many of the 60,000 were transiting through Morocco from sub Saharan Africa ? I can’t really find an answer to that.

If so, depending where they are from, they may well make their way to the Uk.

Now, I agree with you, this particular wave of immigration will have a minimal effect on the UK, but it is symptomatic of larger migration waves, and is thus worthy of discussion.

It’s a really thorny issue, because neither side is ‘on the right side of history’ and messy compromises will have to be made. We need immigration and we also should be compassionate, but how many and where from does matter.

I would consider myself fairly left wing. I have posted several detailed posts outlining pertinent points of Spanish immigration law, information about the regularizacion extraordinaria and it's history, a layman's analysis of the recent Spanish Supreme Court ruling in regards to the return of migrants who enter by sea and information from our government in the peculiarities of Ceuta in regards to it's Schengen status, data on the situation in Ceuta from sources here in Spain and no-one has made reference to any of it, preferring instead to talk about how everyone left wing just calls people racist who ask questions. I have attempted to answer these questions with proper legal information and references, and further reassure you that the chances of this impacting your country are negligible.

No response.

Well when you've got successive governments keeping pertinent data from you, you have to wonder why. I'd like to know who does and doesn't present a danger to me. No, these concerns are not racist and those who don't know its definition need to lay off. Put up or shut up.

Although people argue about the data (which can be incredibly hard to get…I wonder why), it is hard to argue that young men brought up in a culture where women are considered chattels and marriageable from the young teen years are not more likely to rape or commit sexual assault. It would be really bizarre were upbringing to have no effect on behaviour, wouldn’t it?

That doesn’t mean that, assuming their children go to school on a normal British school following the national curriculum (which, sadly, these days, many don’t) they won’t integrate over a generation or two and be no more or less likely to commit crime.

But this takes time and a will to assimilate. I think there is legitimate concern over this.

And I don’t think any of the above is in any way racist.

Great I'm a racist. So you point out exactly where I have been racist in my post. I've got time to wait.

You are racist. And incorrect.

It's the usual but white men when talking about sexual assaults by immigrants. Then every man who goes on a Unite rally is not only a racist but a wife beater. All courtesy of news from the Guardian, of course. The paper that couldn't even quantify Morroccan immigrants breaking through to Ceuta,where other sources did - even Al Jazeera!

Morrocans have a whole country they can stay in (Morocco)

@user1471
Discuss in a reasonable manner possibly?

What form would a discussion in a reasonable manner take?

Calling people ‘racist’ is considered to be the ace of trumps by some, despite zero mention of race ever having been made. And for those people race and culture are synonymous.

And when you point out that not all cultures are equal and that the enlightenment and non sexist attitudes really matter, they just reiterate that you are racist.

And, of course, they point to academic literature saying all immigration (even if it starts off criminal) is ultimately economically beneficial. Of source, they never believe how hard it might be to get funded for an academic paper, for instance, looking at the issues of low skill economic migration.

And finally, of course, when you challenge them as to whether they want completely open borders, they say they don’t! But can’t articulate why based on their other views (all immigrants are an economic benefit, all cultures equal). It can be frustrating!

But, back to the Ceuta immigrants, they clearly came for a reason. It doesn’t matter that the land is geographically in Africa, it is legally in Spain, and they can apply for asylum. If it is granted, they then have the complete freedom of Europe.

I am amazed Spain has managed to return so many so quickly, I am guessing they just had no way of supporting themselves in Ceuta.

Yep it’s rather strange isn’t it. Every single thread goes the same way. They can’t have a reasonable discussion without resorting to name calling and accusing people of being racist. They have nothing else to say apart from the same lines every day.
Apparently it’s “racist” to talk about grooming gangs. It’s always the same, they just don’t wish to discuss it and whenever they do they just resort to hurling insults.

I've just hidden the latest TR thread. Same old unsubstantiated rhetoric with nothing but name calling.

Put a thread up about the Grooming report though and it's tumbleweed town. Silence, zilch.

We have tried that - the left just resort to calling us racist to shut down a conversation, dragging reform, Tommy, Nigel into every thread, drone on about everything being our karma due to colonialism that happened centuries ago and when we were not even born and has no relevance to 2026, make up batshit theories about global warming and tell us that British people commit crimes anyway so a few more crimes from people coming from overseas doesn’t really matter 🤷‍♀️

How are we supposed to discuss anything in a reasonable manner when they just resort to reeling off the same shit from the same script they have been using for the last 20-30 years? Usually none of it has anything to do with what we are trying to discuss!

Discuss in a reasonable manner possibly?

I think you misunderstood my post. I was just trying to explain my reasoning. Sorry if it came across as a lecture. It was not directed at you personally. I am drawing parallels to our situation and the small boat arrivals here.